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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

1st 1,2,3...

Light meter

Light meter

A light meter is still useful for setting the lights as you walk around to check your key to fill and kicker to fill ratios, but the sensor is a better "light meter" for getting the exposure right, more so if you can see the display for linear RAW data since that helps you prevent over-exposure something that you do not have a problem with shooting ECN but is "put you out of work" bad if you do it in a key digital shot...
 
1. eye - set the look, it has to appeal to my eye, contrast, tone, quality, colour

2. meter to set base rated exposure

3. scopes/meters on camera - can I open up or close down to give myself a better range in post and still get the desired real world feel that my eye sees.
 
1- Set an exposure based on known zebra settings.
2- Make sure I’m not loosing info off the top (or bottom) I would like to see.
3- Check trusty monitor (if possible) make sure it’s the “look” we’re going for.

Very interesting to read many different ways to choose an exposure setting. One issue that sticks out to me as being two different camps in this thread is whether to be “right centric”, or “left centric” on the histogram in the quest for our “Fat Negative”. I fall in the “lean right” camp, and think you should have a healthy exposure without loosing desired info off the top. Then crush too taste if darker levels are preferred. I don’t want to have to “pull” anything up from below is the dreaded direction.

Back in my early day’s the exposure tool was mostly an old analog incident meter called the Spectra or a Sekonic. Sometimes you have to tap the meter to make sure it wasn’t getting hung up physically somehow and was giving you proper info. We also had a spot meter made by Pentax and although could provide very useful information about where reflective light was landing on your film emulsion this spot tool could also send you into panic mode which would usually result in a lot more lighting, gripage, and flatter images. We shot a lot reversal 16mm which was very slow 25-125 asa, and notoriously unforgiving in under, or over exposure. It tended to be hard lighting (1970’s) to get up to the levels needed, with a bit of spun glass on the doors to help the “hard light” cause, (ugh)....we have come a long ways! (do I hear 800asa….yee-ya!)

Forward to the digital age. I’ve been shooting video and high def for many years now with basically two tools, a monitor I know and trust (when possible) and zebra’s set to a known quantity. I learned to expose with zebra’s set to 70%, and later when two settings became available I got used to having 100% for the second zebra channel, which is quite useful.
Now that I’m learning to shoot with the Red camera I don’t know what to do with so many tools. With so much attention and concern given to exposure with Red camera I needed to learn some new tricks and I’ve put a lot of time reading this forum, going to seminar, watching u-tubes, exposing Red files and playing with post processing.

I still start with the zebra's and then sometimes check the histogram for confirmation or minor tweak. Everyone seems to agree its important to keep an eye on the floor and whether we are creating a noisy black area that should be brought up slightly out of black. I'm hoping this new sensor will do away with this “noise in Black’s” issue forever, because I love a rich black black, and sometimes lots of it.

If the Black’s continues to be a problem (with new sensor), then one idea is to have two upper level zebra’s (70 and 100), and then a 3rd zebra channel for the Black’s to know when the signal has come off the bottom with fill light or exposure setting, etc.

The False Color is more info then I know what to do with. The other thought along the same lines (as the 3rd Zebra channel) is to be able to select which of the False Color’s to display or turn off, then all the extra info isn’t filling the entire frame and you can see right away the 3 most important things. Skin tone level (or a mid grey level); highlight level, and the black areas. The rest of the grey scale is “too taste” as they say. Or if you think there are 4 (or 2, or 6) important levels to monitor you could choose which False Color’s to have on or off. Also to be able to customize at what level each False Color comes on and off like we can do with the zebra’s, which is an important capability. This way we could more likely shoot WITH the false color on, which I couldn’t do in its current “all color’s on” mode, way too distracting!

Great work you’re doing Red, can’t wait to see what you guys come up with for simplifying the exposure tools.
 
1.buy RED camera
2.log on to REDUSER
3.Roll camera

Still having problems with No.1 :-(
 
Thank you RED for all your effort, your care, all the gifts, knowlege and inspiration that you gave us this year.

Merry Christmas to all !!
 
As a Union Red DIT I have a different methodology for getting the appropriate exposure and it has little to do with setting ISOs, on-camera curves, false color or a lightmeter. This is the realities for 60+ set-up per day TV production:)

Studio Interior
1. Ask the 1st ACs to set the stop at T4. The Gaffer looks at the monitor lights to a T4 never checking meter.
2. DP finishs lighting tells 1st AD he's ready.
3. I check EVF Histogram on each camera then open up a Tstop for RAW and confirm to DP.

Pre-Post
1. Set RedLog LUT on a Dreamcolor using 3CP for Colorist/Post.
2. Create Dailes RSX for DVDs or DVR dailies
3. Check on HD-SDI Broadcast Monitor for consistancy.

Daylight Exteriors
1. Ask Gaffer to set meter to 250.
2. Ask 1st AC to put in .9HMND + Pola to start, set stop to T5.6/8.
3. Check HD-SDI Waveform in RAW, subtract or add ND when appropriate.

Pre-Post
1. Set LUT profile to RedLog on Dreamcolor using 3CP for Colorist/Post.
2. Create Rec709 Dailies RSX for DVD or DVR Dailies
3. Confirm look with DP in Igloo Tent.

I've usually already had a discussion with the DP, Post Sup, Editors, EP, and VFX on what debayer or deliverable are we shooting for because I treat each Feature differently when setting exposure versus Television Production.


I would request the same GUI as the EVFbe sent via HDSDI so I can Monitor the RAW in-shot and for difficult outdoor when I or the AC must adjust the stop mid-shot.
 
I have used my ligthmeter to shoot film for the last 20 years, and whenever I was shooting betacam og in the later years Digibeta or IMX I have always relied on zebras set at 97% to tell me when I was close to clipping. This has been a very successfull way to achieve good exposure on video. When I shoot RED(I shoot a lot of RED on my domestic jobs because I own a RED) I still rely on zebras at 97% in RAWview mode and the RAWmeter,to tell me what is clipping in a shot. I allways keep the video assist in RAWmode, and if someone in video village is scared of the flatness and lack of saturation, I toggle to REC709 and explain to them that the RAW mode is what we are really recording and how this gives us freedom in post work, and that RAW is what I need to see if I have to do my job well. They all seem to understand this,maybe from their experience with RAW in stillfotography.
I shot 2 features and over a hundred commercials this way over the past two years.
I am just now beginning to understand and use false color. A great tool.
I would never use a lightmeter when shooting digital. I simply dont understand the need for an extra intermediate piece of measuring equipment that is guessing/translating the values, when I can see exactly what is happening with my sensor/capturing device.
I love the challenge and uncertainty of exposing film, and to watch what emerges is simply magical. But when shooting digital and given the chance to eliminate that factor to a great degree, I see it as my duty to use that opportunity and extra gift in terms of trying to control the circumtances of shooting, witch is after all my job.
I very rarely shoot at F4 let alone F5,6-8. I have worked most of my DP life between F1,3 and F2,8, ecxecpt when shooting anamorphic.
I rate RED at ISO 320 and 5000K and sometimes use an 80C filter when shooting tungsten for narrative work. This approach is off course just my way, but it hasent com back to bite me in the ass so far;-)
I only bring my meter when shooting film.
For scouting I use my DSLR as a meter and directors veiwfinder.
 
I second the desire for an awesome RED light meter!

While we're at it, an awesome RED director's viewfinder, too! :biggrin5:
 
Last edited:
Daniel Valle said:
I second the desire for an awesome RED light meter!

While we're at it, an awesome RED director's viewfinder, too! :biggrin5:
Click to expand...

Why? But what about an awesome,amazing, badass RED toothbrush/vibrator, all chrome and in the shape of an awesome badass spider
 
To me there is no standard.
It's different pending job and budget.

Do I have an adequate lighting and post budget? Then...

1. Light with meter that's been calibrated to ISO 320
2. Check the histogram
3. Tweak with false color and monitor to guide the eye with highlights



If I don't have an adequate lighting budget

I don't bother with the histogram. I know what it says by looking at the monitor. Here I'll use the stop lights to decide just how much I'm willing to clip -- cause I know I don't have the guns on a truck to tightent up the contrast and will have to compromise. The stop lights and false color get me where I want to end up -- knowing I can dig out some black before noise but I'll have to live with blown out highlights to avoid to much noise.

If I'm shooting close-ups over white or black or some other consistent drop the false color does a splendid job.


The thing is I shoot for video -- not projection. Always have. So after 2 decades of exposing negative, and then nearly 2 years with the same Red package and it's various outcomes after following firmware upgrades, there's an exposure already in my head. I can get pretty darn close without any of the internal meters.

max
 
My POV is Old school for electronic photog. it works like analog video. seems to work pretty good for digital aquisition too. underexposure is better than over stop under meter unlike neg. where U are usually about a stop over.

1. decide exposure, based on lens length, depth of field matching cross coverage etc.

2. look at wave form, light so that nothing is cut above WF ceiling, sometimes skylights burn etc. then I make sure I have a clear exposure on the mullions, frames, gauzzy curtains etc. I light to bring up shadow detail above floor, even when I intend to crush the blacks later.

3. Always use std ei of 320 This is the real speed of the sensor the rest is just smoke n mirrors in post. The real magic with this is in post, use ND to adjust in brighter scenes. use only nd and ir filters. I try to get the director a nice fat neg. so we can have the freedom to create needed looks in post.
 
Jannard said:
It may seem contrasty because you are throwing out highlight range at ISO 200 (unless it is a low contrast scene). Every rated ISO is based on a curve. The higher the ISO, the more highlight protection and smoother the roll... but also the higher the noise. That's why most stick with ISO 320-500 on a RED ONE. And 500-1000 on an M-X. These ranges are a good balance (usually) between range and noise.

Jim
Click to expand...

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear (and I think I forgot a step). What I meant by shooting a contrasty film stock is that there is less latitude than modern negative film by a few stops. Things seem contrastier than they would on Vison2 200T.

The step I forgot is adjusting the brightness control to get things in the ballpark for the grade. I find that doesn't need much, as things are pretty WYSIWYG with this method.
 
1. Set F-stop, ASA, Shutter angle, FPS to suit the story..
2. Light to suit story
3. Tweak settings for desired looking image that suits story.. get yelled at by Andrew Benz...
 
1. Follow your vision.
2. Do good work.
3. Have fun.

Jim
 
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