15:1 compression ratio at WS 8:1 for doc shooting (Feature over sea)?

[Minu Park]

I am currently on pre-production on a feature length Documentary project at a remote area in china.

(This project crew are total 3-4 people including a fixer, and it's not really big crew, we will have our car)

Since I don't speak Chinese, and the location is a bit remote country side of china, so I am struggling between Epic-w or scarlet-w to shoot the project.
My producer is a bit worried about the memory that we will be dealing with during the trip.

So I am sending her some ideas of how we can manage the memory. Ideally, I really want to finish the project with 8k WS.

What producer need
I need to clear out 4-5 hours shooting per a day maximum - Minimum 2 hours of footage (Goal: 20-30hours of footage)
I need to send her how many memories I will spend per a day.

Now Epic-W
8k ws 15:1 will give me 256 min roughly for 1tb per a day. (4hours+)

Scarlet-W
5k ws 10:1 will give me 257 min roughly for 512gb per a day. (4hours+)

Ironically, my Epic-w hasn't been arrived so I can't tell how bad the image will be based on Epic-w's 15:1 situation comparing to Scarlet-w's 10:1.

What do you guys think about between two cameras for shooting??

Thanks guys!

 

[Domenic Barbero]

i would think 15:1 would be fine if you wanted to finish in 4k or 2k. But shooting in 15:1 with intent to finish in 8k seems like it probably wouldn't look ideal in its master format.

 

[Minu Park]

i would think 15:1 would be fine if you wanted to finish in 4k or 2k. But shooting in 15:1 with intent to finish in 8k seems like it probably wouldn't look ideal in its master format.

If that's the case, there is no meaning of having extra resolution comparing to Scarlet-w I guess... Isn't it?

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

Ironically, my Epic-w hasn't been arrived so I can't tell how bad the image will be based on Epic-w's 15:1 situation comparing to Scarlet-w's 10:1.

I can tell you right now that 8K 15:1 vs Scarlet-W 5K 10:1 - the Epic-W will look better. Helium at 8K can handle much higher compression (especially with 4K finish) over Dragon. I have yet to do a proper hardcore compression test with Helium as I was waiting for release build that is now out - but all of my basic tests have show than I can use higher compression settings with Helium before seeing compression artifacts.

 

[Marc Wielage]

Call me crazy, but I'd say buy more storage and don't use as much compression. I get nervous when anybody goes over 5:1, period.

 

[Ted Parkes]

Minu .. I have a similar dilemma with a project in Africa in February and I have decided to stick with my Epic Dragon. Data and frame rates being the two biggest issues and that fact that my Dragon is rock solid and dialled in. I am a little worried taking a brand new camera into the field without time to put a few hours on it. But from a data stand point and a small crew I am looking at the Nexto Di Storage Bridge. Link below. Its a module set up of SSD drives and card readers including Red mags. Link below. Good luck I am curious to know what you decide to do.

http://www.nextodi.com/product/en_nsb25.html

Ted

 

[Luca Orlandi]

Always shot between 7:1 and 12:1, no problem and no visible artifacts even with Epic Dragon... same for Helium.

Call me crazy, but I'd say buy more storage and don't use as much compression. I get nervous when anybody goes over 5:1, period.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

Always shot between 7:1 and 12:1, no problem and no visible artifacts even with Epic Dragon... same for Helium.

It is all about how much DETAIL is (in sharp focus) in your image.

If you shoot wide open with a shallow depth of field - you typically have a TON less detail to compress vs. wide angle with everything in focus and filled with detail.

If you turn on EDGE in tools - you can get a quick visual reality check - by the amount of white lines - how much "detail" is stressing (or not stressing) compression. If you see a ton of detail popping there as white lines - you want a lower compression setting.

 

[Owen Rennie]

I'd probably shoot it on a c300 II

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Call me crazy, but I'd say buy more storage and don't use as much compression. I get nervous when anybody goes over 5:1, period.

What Marc said.

It is all about how much DETAIL is (in sharp focus) in your image.

From a production perspective.

From a post perspective there is the additional effect of "thickness", flexibility and picture detail behavior reliability and above 5:1 you get nervous.



In the context of the original topic and question, 15:1 8K is much more data than 10:1 5K and wavelets are more efficient with more pixels to work with, so the final from 8K should be "thicker" and "cleaner" with 4K delivery. Just don't expect miracles and same results as from a 100MB raw frame from a 50MP stills camera.


Also, another thing to note: unless you are planning on getting sufficient amount of 1 TB Red Drives for each day of shooting or carrying sufficient number of 1TB 2.5" SSD's for backup or dragging around a RAID array through remote places in China, you might also consider time (with power requirements) for offload and backup of 1TB each day in the middle of nowhere, which in the case of standard USB3 2.5" drives takes about three hours.