$1299 Seiki UHDTV 50" SE50UY04 - Bought it today

[stephenv2]

Thanks to all who've got one and reported - as well as finding the codes/links.

Just ordered and used the coupon. I'm not a Red owner, but day job is creating DCP's and main project is a non-profit film for IMAX theaters being created at 5.6K (In Saturn's Rings). Being able to preview my work in 4K in my basement studio is huge. I will report in detail once I get it setup. Will calibrate it to 6500K and put some material on I've seen in 12-bit 4K DLP.

 

[John Bellari]

I have to get going to some meetings but real brief feedback (more thorough one coming tonight)

I was able to set up two configurations to test this out.

MacBook Pro ->HDMI 1080p -> Seiki
PC with Nvidia Card w HDMI that has 4k -> Seiki

1080p going into this monitor does not look good. There are no fancy upscaling abilities in this panel. I totally expected it to look bad. Hooking up a 1080p feed confirmed it.
Feed it a 4k signal, now we are talking. =)

Below is an h264 file. crappy iphone pic. that little spec in the lower left screen.. its NOT a dead pixel..its the mouse pointer..haha (open image to new window to see the photo larger)

Below is Starcraft. again, crappy iphone photo but you can see the detail of the text... gives you an idea of how good 4k gaming looks hehe. (open image to new window to see the photo larger)

I can't wait to see this rocking with redray!
So far, the poor man's setup would be PC with a 4k Hdmi enabled graphics card. I would use this as the second panel as the text gets uber tiny.

If you have a set up that can't output 4k, you will be disappointed...no clean upscaling. This is a native 4k panel. Imagine taking your laptop screen resolution preferences and choosing VGA mode.. looks like crap right?

In a nutshell: The image isn't as nice as the five thousand dollar Sony 4k panel I saw at NAB or other higher models, but for the price, the panel is definitely mindblowing. 4k for 1200-1500 bucks... insane.

4k is definitely NOW. I can't wait until redray starts rolling out.

Special thanks to fellow Redusers who helped me test last night... Blair S. Paulsen and George Tsai.
George gives his two thumbs up all the way. If you want the exact model graphics card info, George will chime in.

Hi Tonaci,

You may want to revise your review with CAREFUL use of the word "UPSCALING" vs "Advanced Conversion/Doubling", and do a little more comparisons with High Res Still Photos and you'll see what's going on ...

"UPSCALING vs ADVANCED CONVERSION/LINE DOUBLING/QUADRUPLING"

The set does upscale footage it receives to the appropriate height or width, BUT does not AUTOMATICALLY ADVANCED CONVERT/LINE DOUBLE or QUADRUPLE the source with hardware from our observation so far (no specs yet). The SOURCE is the limiting factor, not the set. The signal it gets, it shows. HDTV 1080p is not so good at even 50" when compared to 4K. GARBAGE IN / GARBAGE out...

When you actually think about it, it actually is way BETTER you didn't PAY
for a locked in conversion technology, as you do with the Sony and LG sets for way much more money.

Simply use SOFTWARE ADVANCED CONVERSION/LINE DOUBLING/QUADRUPLING with your source to get a better signal to the set. Home theater Receivers are now shipping to do that for "Quad" output of HD signal to 4K, and some will be better than others.

In a couple of years with h.265 compression standard, your video card/receiver/Roku will likely have the built-in ability to advanced convert/line double/quadruple/octuple any source anyway...

Cheers,
John

 

[Tonaci Tran]

Hi John,

Here is what i am referring to... for example. LGs fancier 4k display has "The 55- and 65-inch LG 3D Ultra HD TVs display the same resolution as their mammoth cousin. All three have LG’s Triple XD Engine to upscale 1080p content to 4K (3840x2160)."
This panel lacks any sophisticated upscaling engine. I never said it didn't upscale. I just said it is not clean.

 

[John Bellari]

Hi John,

Here is what i am referring to... for example. LGs fancier 4k display has "The 55- and 65-inch LG 3D Ultra HD TVs display the same resolution as their mammoth cousin. All three have LG’s Triple XD Engine to upscale 1080p content to 4K (3840x2160)."
This panel lacks any sophisticated upscaling engine. I never said it didn't upscale. I just said it is not clean.

Hi Tonaci,

I think you simply need to reword some things not to cause confusion.
You didn't PAY for a set with advanced conversion/line doubling-quadrupling, etc technology built in. simply scaling, which it does exactly right.

Think about it in audio terms, you can't complain in a review about a Speaker system because it
doesn't make RECORDS sound like CD's - right?

The set cleanly upscales, and can certainly display FOUR CLEAN 1080p signals AT FULL RESOLUTION on the screen at once,
but what you'd like the set to do is BOTH SCALING AND ADVANCED CONVERSION/LINE DOUBLING/Quadrupling of a 1080p source or 720p source, which nowhere does the set represent that it does that anywhere, and ultimately that's best left to the source to do the line doubling/quadrupling which always improves with time and new software algorithms...

Here's a 15 YEAR OLD article explain the differences even with NTSC source material and simple link with a quote:

http://www.trainingmag.com/article/...calers-high-tech-tools-improve-video-playback

"Doublers, quadruplers and scalers with high-quality decoder chip sets and processing circuits can produce phenomenal results. When it's done right, the projected images have an almost cinema-quality sharpness. Price is a fairly good barometer of quality in this category of product -- you get what you pay for."


Comparing line doublers and quadruplers on the other hand, that's an entirely different debate
BUT should not reflect negatively on the set's review.

Also, I think few people WANT to pay THOUSANDS extra for a built-in 1080p/720p doubler,
which is what LG and Sony will certainly try to PUSH along with some higher refresh rates like converting 24 HZ to 120 HZ or 240Hz, destroying your original artistic intent at 24 or 25p...

Pioneer, Onkyo, LG and Sony receivers and Blu-Ray players and eventually 4K streamers will all do different jobs of line doubling, quadrupling,conversion, etc and that's
where this set leaves that for those companies to do the fighting... PLUS you don't pay for it TWICE, as you'll have to shut one off in order to make it work!

I know there will be at least a year or two where people will be TRICKED into paying for Advanced conversion/doubling built into TV sets, only having to shut it off at a later date...

Just my quick thoughts and hopes to clarify some confusion that may ensue, being pushed by Big Box stores onto unsuspecting consumers...

Cheers,
John

 

[Stacey Spears]

You didn't PAY for a set with line doubling technology built in. simply scaling, which it does exactly right.

How do you know it does it right? There is no such thing as right. There are various levels of scaling quality. My new disc has a pattern designed to evaluate the quality of scaling. I can tell you the OPPO 103 does a better job scaling to 4k than the native scaling in the Sharp 32" panel for example.

Not sure why you keep mentioning line doubling. A line doubler, aka deinterlacer is something that converts interlaced content into progressive. A quadrupler is a deinterlacer followed by a 2x scaler. Bad marketing terms created by Faroudja many years ago. I prefer the series of articles I did on the subject http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/the-...vd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-scan-dvd.html We are in the process of re-writing the article to update it to include current technology. Its long overdue.

 

[John Bellari]

How do you know it does it right? There is no such thing as right. There are various levels of scaling quality. My new disc has a pattern designed to evaluate the quality of scaling. I can tell you the OPPO 103 does a better job scaling to 4k than the native scaling in the Sharp 32" panel for example.

Not sure why you keep mentioning line doubling. A line doubler, aka deinterlacer is something that converts interlaced content into progressive. A quadrupler is a deinterlacer followed by a 2x scaler. Bad marketing terms created by Faroudja many years ago. I prefer the series of articles I did on the subject http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/the-...vd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-scan-dvd.html We are in the process of re-writing the article to update it to include current technology. Its long overdue.

Hi Stacey,

Nice detailed article.

I guess it is a generational difference in terminology, HOWEVER, I believe it is also best left at the source to do that function and not a defect of this set at this price.

Also, as Kramer Electronics states "sophisticated Doublers use Interpolation while adding lines in order to increase picture quality. A Line Quadrupler is an extension of a Line Doubler, adding even more lines to the video signal, displaying video"

http://www.kramerus.com/academy/?keyword=LineDoubler/Quadrupler

Whatever they call it today, when you take a pixel and simply scale it to 4x the size, that's scaling to me and avoids confusion...

 

[Les Dittert]

Stacey,
You should try your test pattern on the Sony. It has a very fancy up converter . Not just a resize algorithm.

How do you know it does it right? There is no such thing as right. There are various levels of scaling quality. My new disc has a pattern designed to evaluate the quality of scaling. I can tell you the OPPO 103 does a better job scaling to 4k than the native scaling in the Sharp 32" panel for example.

Not sure why you keep mentioning line doubling. A line doubler, aka deinterlacer is something that converts interlaced content into progressive. A quadrupler is a deinterlacer followed by a 2x scaler. Bad marketing terms created by Faroudja many years ago. I prefer the series of articles I did on the subject http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/the-...vd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-scan-dvd.html We are in the process of re-writing the article to update it to include current technology. Its long overdue.

 

[Stacey Spears]

I am hoping to get the 55" Sony soon.

My pattern tests for three characteristics right now. Non-ringing, linear light, and edge adaptive. So far the Marvell chip in the OPPO 103 has a non-ringing scaler. DVDO has both non-ringing and smooth. (a post process form of edge adaptive) Not sure if a product using their technology will ever come to market. The only linear light scaler I am aware of is the software version I have, which Deluxe and GDMX also use for a lot of Blu-ray releases.

as also Kramer Electronics states "sophisticated Doublers use Interpolation while adding lines in order to increase picture quality. A Line Quadrupler is an extension of a Line Doubler, adding even more lines to the video signal, displaying video"

If the interlaced content is originally native progressive, then you don't use any interpolation as that would lose detail. You simply perform inverse telecine. In terms of interpolation, you can use basic bob, motion adaptive, edge adaptive, mo-comp, etc...

 

[Les Dittert]

The Sony is doing super resolution, trained with actual image edge set. A worlds more advanced than any multi tap resizer !
There is a white paper around somewhere. A good read.
Let us know what you find !

 

[David Kuhn]

Hi Tonaci,

You may want to revise your review with CAREFUL use of the word "UPSCALING" vs "Doubling", and do a little more comparisons with High Res Still Photos and you'll see what's going on ...

"UPSCALING vs LINE DOUBLING/QUADRUPLING"

The set does upscale footage it receives to the appropriate height or width, BUT DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY LINE DOUBLE or QUADRUPLE the source with hardware. The SOURCE is the limiting factor, not the set. The signal it gets, it shows. HDTV 1080p is not so good at even 50" when compared to 4K. GARBAGE IN / GARBAGE out...

When you actually think about it, it actually is way BETTER you didn't PAY
for a locked in hardware doubling technology, as you do with the Sony and LG sets for way much more money.

Simply use SOFTWARE LINE DOUBLING/QUADRUPLING with your computer card to get a better signal to the set. Home theater Receivers are now shipping to do that for "Quad" output of HD signal to 4K, and some will be better than others.

In a couple of years with h.265 compression standard, your video card/receiver/Roku will likely have the built-in ability to line double/quadruple/Octuple any source anyway...

Cheers,
John

THIS.

ffdshow is your friend. If you've got a decent PC you should be able to upscale and get very nice results. This panel sounds like a great deal... I keep thinking 'too good to be true... there must be something wrong with it'.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Well, I bit the bullet and ordered one of these yesterday and it is now shipped. I'll run it through my gauntlet of tests when it gets here -- I'm starting to see some mixed reviews coming from various places on the net, some of them are not very favorable. :/

 

[michael zaletel]

Well, I bit the bullet and ordered one of these yesterday and it is now shipped. I'll run it through my gauntlet of tests when it gets here -- I'm starting to see some mixed reviews coming from various places on the net, some of them are not very favorable. :/

Hi Jeff,

I have been watching this thread and waiting for you to buy one and post the truth!

-Michael Zaletel

P.S. I'll gladly cover half the return shipping fees if it needs to go back.

 

[Brandon J.F.]

I read that there's no way to adjust the gamma, color, etc. so calibration is impossible. Maybe it will be added to the firmware at some point in the future.

 

[michael zaletel]

I read that there's no way to adjust the gamma, color, etc. so calibration is impossible. Maybe it will be added to the firmware at some point in the future.

Isn't it possible to calibratre at the Video Card level with something like Datacolor?

 

[stephenv2]

Isn't it possible to calibratre at the Video Card level with something like Datacolor?

Yes, I have a HP 30" Wide Gamut LCD and it can do just that. It's not ideal of course. I will probably also try to tweak a bit with Disney WOW disk and blue filter - the question is really is how close can you get it to usable. I'm also trying to dig up info on HDMI versions and 10-bit.

 

[Bill Sepaniak]

I read that there's no way to adjust the gamma, color, etc. so calibration is impossible. Maybe it will be added to the firmware at some point in the future.

Color adjustments are pretty simple (crude). From page 12. of the manual:


[TABLE="align: left"]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Picture Mode	"Cycle among picture Dynamic/Movie/User/ Standard. Alternative: you may press the P.MODE button to select the picture mode directly.
Contrast	Adjust the difference between light and dark levels in the pictures. (For User mode)
Brightness	Increase or decrease the amount of white in the picture. (For User mode)
Color	Control the color intensity. (For User mode)
Tint	Adjust the balance between red and green levels.
Sharpness	Adjust the level of crispness in the edges between light and dark areas of the picture. (For User mode)
Color Temperature	Cycle among color temperatures: Cool/Normal/Warm.
Blue Screen	Allow the blue background to turn On/Off during weak or no signal conditions."

I am sure that calibration (if any) will be a challenge ... but at this price point how much can you realistically expect?
________________________________
Scarlet X # 1859 “Bettie Page”
“… preparing to ‘whip’ the competition …”

Zeiss Lenses:

CY 21/2.8
ZF 28/2.0
CY 35-70/3.4
CY 50/1.4
ZF100/2.0

Nikon Lenses:
G 14-24/2.8
G 24-70/2.8
D 80-200/2.8

Tokina Lenses:

11-16/2.8

 

[stephenv2]

Well, I bit the bullet and ordered one of these yesterday and it is now shipped. I'll run it through my gauntlet of tests when it gets here -- I'm starting to see some mixed reviews coming from various places on the net, some of them are not very favorable. :/

Jeff - any links to reviews of substance and reliability? I've seen various short comments, but nothing that really felt like a review.

 

[Brandon J.F.]

Color adjustments are pretty simple (crude).

That's more than I expected after reading this:

While the lack of features isn’t a huge deal (Roku streaming boxes are inexpensive and excellent), there are also no gamma, gray scale (for color temperature calibration) or color management system adjustments. This is a potentially much larger deal, as these three adjustments can radically affect a TV’s picture quality.

http://hdguru.com/first-look-at-the-seiki-se50uy04-affordable-ultra-hdtv/

I am sure that calibration (if any) will be a challenge ... but at this price point how much can you realistically expect?

I agree. It's an amazing bargain. If I was in the US right now I would order one myself.

 

[Les Dittert]

where the heck are the screws that hold the base on ?
Mine shipped without them, I guess !

 

[George Tsai]

Our goal last night was to see if it works and went through some Red footages.

I was running off an old computer of mine, Core 2 Quad, and a video card I got two weeks ago, the EVGA 660 SC. It goes over a single HDMI cable. for general use the 30Hz is ok, what becomes problematic is finding your mouse and small text hehe. I didn't get to try any FPS like Crysis where 60Hz becomes critical, but Starcraft played just fine. With the graphics turned up all the way the details was amazing. We also installed a Red Rocket card and it was easy to see the difference playing at 1/2 res vs 1080 vs still frame at full res (couldnt play real time hehe). Color was ok for viewing, but I wouldn't light or make any color decisions off of it, but at it's given price you can't realistically expect to Some color adjustments can be made from the computer but we didn't fiddle around with that much.

But yea, can't give a comprehensive review or anything at the moment, need more time with it. But at least we know it works, the resolution is real, no dead pixels, the color is comparable with other middle of the range HDTVs of today, and it's possible to drive the TV with a meager $180 video card