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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

#1 Problem...

Jannard

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with Build 15 and before... was missed exposure. We have seen so much footage that had to be fixed in post from this that it motivated us to fix this in Build 16. Missed exposure happened both ways. Over-exposed footage clipped the highlights and lost latitude. Under-exposed footage was pulled up in post and noise was introduced. How did this happen?

In pre-16 builds, when you had correct exposure (really correct), the monitor looked darker than it should have. Many got to understand this and adjust for it. If not, the tendency was to open up the exposure until the mids on the monitor looked right. That led to over-exposure. Conversely, some users got comfortable with the "pull it up out of the dirt" concept, thinking that erring on the side of under-exposure could always be saved in post with no chance of clipping. While a little of this was OK, a lot was not (as with most things...). The disparity between an exposure meter, the image on the LCD, the histogram and "Stop Lights" made for tricky business. Those that used "False Color" and got to know the system have had the best results.

So in Build 16, we wanted to align everything (as much as possible). Now... they all line up. What looks right on your LCD, is what you see when you open your file in RED Alert! (and REDCINE). When the histogram says you are clipping and the "Stop Lights" go on, you are clipping. A correctly metered ISO will match what you are seeing on the LCD and histogram. Exposure was never so easy. And while you still might miss exposure once in awhile, you should be well within the range of the RAW file to save you.

I can't stress enough how important this is going forward. I have shot quite a bit myself and got to know the ins and outs of pre-16 builds. I am so relieved over this improvement... I'm sure you will be too.

As for picking ISOs. After ISO 500, ONLY use a higher ISO on an as-need basis. You are not using the sweet spot of the sensor. This sounds rather obvious. But the difference between shooting ISO 500 at T2.8 is incredible compared to shooting ISO 1000 at T4. And not just the DOF. Make sure you exhaust all lens and lighting options before going up in ISO. Then, if necessary, shoot the higher ISO with confidence. Just know the shot would have been better at ISO 500. If you find yourself exposing ISO 1000 at T5.6 or T8, an alarm bell should go off in your head. Certainly there may be exceptions to this rule, but other than a couple, I don't know what they would be.

A lot of this will sound remedial to the trained professional. But there are many here who quietly want some help.

Jim
 
But there are many here who quietly want some help.

All sounds like good advice... and diplomatically worded.

Last time I hired someone to shoot a HDV camera, he shot for two hours at f/4 - 5.6 and +18 dB gain. :waaa: I assume it was not intentional but don't really know, I haven't spoken to him since.
 
It's always a good idea to lay out things in a clear and simple way.

Thanks
Emmanuel
 
It sounds like you have solved a continuity problem. Excellent.

I rate the RED at 500 most of the time, it feels like the sweet spot then you can put the blacks back if need be.

David
 
Thank you for the continued guidance and development. I'm looking forward to seeing 16 in action.
 
Great!

(Okay, the anal retentive English major in me just has to say: the past of "lead" is "led" -- otherwise it's the stuff Superman can't see through.)
 
Great!

(Okay, the anal retentive English major in me just has to say: the past of "lead" is "led" -- otherwise it's the stuff Superman can't see through.)

One of my high school buddies is a teacher and cringes every time I send him an email...

Fixed. Thanks.

Jim
 
Sounds like Build 16 is really dialing many things in and it's all coming together.
 
Hi Jim,

I'm reading carefully all your posts and discussions concerning build 16, the various reasons why highlights are being clipped, overexposure, grading ... and the fact that the Red One censor is rated ISO 320-500

I understand that the Epic and Scarlet will use the same core software so most of what is being said here will apply to these cameras.

What about the censor ISOs on those next cameras? Is it too early to know?
Thanks
 
As for picking ISOs. After ISO 500, ONLY use a higher ISO on an as-need basis. You are not using the sweet spot of the sensor. This sounds rather obvious. But the difference between shooting ISO 500 at T2.8 is incredible compared to shooting ISO 1000 at T4. And not just the DOF. Make sure you exhaust all lens and lighting options before going up in ISO. Then, if necessary, shoot the higher ISO with confidence. Just know the shot would have been better at ISO 500. If you find yourself exposing ISO 1000 at T5.6 or T8, an alarm bell should go off in your head. Certainly there may be exceptions to this rule, but other than a couple, I don't know what they would be.

Jim

So to use the film vernacular...
When shooting we should generally expose correctly at ISO 500 and pull or push the image in post (RA) when needed. Unless their are situations that obviously call for an ISO adjustment.
Is that correct?
 
In pre-16 builds, when you had correct exposure (really correct), the monitor looked darker than it should have. Many got to understand this and adjust for it. If not, the tendency was to open up the exposure until the mids on the monitor looked right. That led to over-exposure. Conversely, some users got comfortable with the "pull it up out of the dirt" concept, thinking that erring on the side of under-exposure could always be saved in post with no chance of clipping. While a little of this was OK, a lot was not (as with most things...). The disparity between an exposure meter, the image on the LCD, the histogram and "Stop Lights" made for tricky business. Those that used "False Color" and got to know the system have had the best results.

Jim

That explains why I've had so many clipped shots. After all the blue channel noise discussions, I have been exposing as far to the right as I can without the stop lights going off. The LCD looked fine. But I kept coming back with all three channels over. I'll try the false color mode.

My #1 problem has been trying to work outdoors with the LCD. Just doesn't cut it at all. I've just borrowed an EVF and footage is vastly better. Make more EVFs!!!!!!!!!!
 
Canon 5D

Canon 5D

All of this discussion regarding build 16 is a real context changer. I'm now wondering what the true ASA of my Canon 5D SLR is. I only shoot RAW. When I use it at a low ASA there seems to be a strange antiseptic quality to the image on occasion. Shooting at a higher ASA 400-800 often makes images that are more pleasing but I really never thought about why. Out of habit, I assumed shooting digitally was like film with regards to ASA.

It's time to throw the film context away. Stressing the raw image up or down is clearly the most important concern with Red cinematography and most likely Digital Photography as well.

-Dave Dessel
#: 522
 
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