1 lens = 3D HD on Scarlet-X

[Justin Harrison]

Hey I figured it would be better to post this up here. I'm working on a 4 mirror beam splitting lens for Scarlet!

Not much to show just yet, except for a dark hotel room and it just might work!

Post is a series of pre comps in AfterEffects. Just drop the footage in tand it splits and layers it. Should transfer over nicely to Premiere to edit in 3D and previews.

For on-set I'm working on a clip-on viewer for the 5" RED Touch that will fold up and out of the way.

I deff need higher quality mirrors and I've got plenty of vertical room to reframe. Oh and it's only HD...

 

[John Bellari]

Avatar 3D in 1080p didn't do so bad at the box office- I like the concept!

 

[Kyle Gentz]

This seems like a cool concept.

 

[Campbell Goodwille]

What is the interaxial going to be on the lens?

 

[Alan Skinner]

If it works, I'll buy one!

 

[Justin Harrison]

Working on making EVERYTHING adjustable. Started with just straight mirrors/glass and was going to put threads on for filters in the end.

It's based on an old idea really. http://www.loreo.com/ has been making little plastic versions for awhile for SLRs but they aren't very adjustable. Fun toys though!

Another idea is to mount the camera 90 degrees and have 4 more mirrors to bounce the image so they are 2 stacked 1920x1080 images on the 4K vertical image. Would make look around and spacing a bit nicer

 

[Kwan Khan]

Thanks for starting this thread Justin

The basic idea of creating two virtual cameras with two mirrors at a slight angle can be implemented in many ways. By adding just one more mirror, you can modify the idea to reposition the subject in front of the camera.

If it works, I'll buy one!

+1...

 

[Justin Harrison]

Everything is being CAD designed & CNC'd so making more should be fairly easy once a final working design is sorted out

 

[Kwan Khan]

<---- In

 

[Les Dittert]

How does it wok when you open up the lens aperture to 2.8 or wider ?
Would it not start fuzzing out the transition line between the two eyes?

 

[Petri Teittinen]

I bought a Loreo mirror beam splitter lens a long time ago and tested it quite successfully on a RED One. Been waiting for someone to create an adjustable (and affordable) version ever since.

 

[Kwan Khan]

Hey Petri,
Which model you have tested, 9005A or 9004T?
Can you share some of your test (Footage)?

 

[owen korb]

Had that Idea to use the Loreo 3D Lens in a Cap awhile ago. Its really cool but leaves a blurrrrrryyy edge! I think Stereo toolbox has FCP plugin fix for it!! like 100 bucks on ebay! Lots of fun!! Yeah Gotta keep people like 6 feet back from the lens for good 3D.. Similar to the Gopro 3D system..

 

[Petri Teittinen]

Hey Petri,
Which model you have tested, 9005A or 9004T?

It's the 9005. It's a bit problematic on Nikon mounts because it wants to lock at a 30 degree angle, and needs to be slightly modified because of that.

Can you share some of your test (Footage)?

Oh, it was more than a year ago, I don't think I have the files anymore, sorry. In addition to the locking angle, it had some other pressing issues, like quite a soft image and a massive thirst for light. It ran out of light on a sunny day in the middle of summer. I wouldn't try it at anything even remotely professional, it's more like a fun toy. But the idea of shooting 1080p 3D on a single RED is a good one, which is why I've been waiting for someone to build a professional version.

 

[Pedro Guimaraes]

I've been down this road with the Phantom 65 4 years ago.....

other issues which we had planned to motorize.....IO and focal length adjustment in relation to mirror size needed. Also limiting crosstalk area between each image via a "septum" down the barrel of the lens or right against the back of it.

Here is me machining the "septum" we had in our system..

Here is our completed system on the front of a rally car mounted to a Phantom 65 with a hasselblad lens.

Our system during it's first test for a 3D Rally movie.

Here is me mounting it on the roof of the rally car

during another test shoot a monitor shot.

here is the result on the RED one....pictured is designer and 3D pioneer John Rupkalvis

The other major issue....is post processing of the images created.

We did it with a Quantel Pablo system. We created some "scripts". I guess you can do similar things with AE.

We would shot a chart then from this chart we would remove any distortion that was created from the mirrors. These coordinated would then be applied against all the footage.

Then another "script" would "SLPIT" the image and place it into L & R folders.

The result would be 2 folders with L&R images free from distortion and ready to assemble into a 3D timeline for review.

Biggest issues...... possible usable focal lengths, lens availability, mirror sizes, mirror motorization, mirror mounting(flatness), maintaining mirror alignment during any adjustments, developing an internal septum.......OMG........the list goes on and on......

The system worked. We proved our concept. What this idea needs to turn into a usable "product" is a a couple hundred thousand to couple million in R&D. :drool:

Even then it will not address every situation you encounter during a 3D production. It can be a very useful solution if developed further.

I wish you luck and I know how much fun it is to experiment and "invent" (or re-inventing).

But for me the fun stopped when the funding stopped! Good luck in your endeavors.

 

[Tom.Wong]

the phantom 65 has that z3d system now which pretty much does what you accomplished, except it's all in one dual lens system now. the results are pretty damn good.

 

[Pedro Guimaraes]

it's not the same......it's using 2 lenses. that a pretty big difference.

That design limits IO and can introduce other issues like color disparities, possible focus mismatches and other issues.

The main issue is that you have to use these tiny miniature lenses with questionable quality.

In the system we worked on you could use superb quality cinema lenses or in our case amazing hasselblad lenses. Both images go thru the same lens. This makes focus track perfect and also give more equal colorimetry between eyes.

the Zepar is useful but it has a very small IO and once again limits its use. The ultimate idea is to make a system like these (dual or single lens) with a variable IO/IA

 

[Justin Harrison]

Hey I finally put my Loreo 9005 back together and will post up some pics, files and an AE (CS 5.5) workflow comp sometime this weekend for everyone to start playing with!

AE with TrueComp duplicator plugin makes splitting and aligning a snap. Bring the new footage in and drop it into the original comp and then jump over to the 3D HD comp to preview & adjust.

Now if only RED made one of these lenses we'd be good to go! Wink wink nudge nudge...

 

[Rich Schaefer]

Interesting! I do believe the future of 3d will not be bulky beamsplitters with two cameras, but rather very sophisticated optics.

Keep us posted on your progress. All the best in your endevor!

Cheers,
Rich

 

[Justin Harrison]

LOREO 9005 w/ wide angle converters

WALL-E?