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Pricing a Red One system

J

Jon Furtado

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I am doing some research for a client who's looking to price a Red One system for purchase. Could anyone help me in figuring a ballpark price for a complete Red One system including Lenses? Also, what are some recommended accessories that work well with it? What brand of Follow focus rig, matte box, sticks would anyone recommend?

I realize this is a very generic set of questions to ask. But, I anticipate the discussion to grow organically, so i'd like to get some opinions first before asking more specific questions.

I appreciate the vast knowledge base here and since I myself have not had the pleasure of owning, working with one, I'm looking for as much advice as possible before giving my client my formal recommendation and estimate.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 
Well, anywhere between $22K and 200K. I think you need to let us know more what you intend to use the camera for, and what sort of budget you are imagining. What is your delivery format.

Oh, and be sure to change your screen name to your real name. (See below for details on how.)
 
waywardsage said:
I am doing some research for a client who's looking to price a Red One system for purchase. Could anyone help me in figuring a ballpark price for a complete Red One system including Lenses? Also, what are some recommended accessories that work well with it? What brand of Follow focus rig, matte box, sticks would anyone recommend?

I realize this is a very generic set of questions to ask. But, I anticipate the discussion to grow organically, so i'd like to get some opinions first before asking more specific questions.

I appreciate the vast knowledge base here and since I myself have not had the pleasure of owning, working with one, I'm looking for as much advice as possible before giving my client my formal recommendation and estimate.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...

Hi,

Realisticly if using a Red 17-50 zoom and basic tripod about $35,000 +
With prime lenses $50,000-80,000 assuming you don't want the most expensive lenses available, I know several owner op's that have very usable kits in that price range. Don't expect huge rental returns!

Stephen
 
My client is starting a production company. He wants to use the cameras to shoot independent films, music video's, concerts, etc. A wide variety.

He also wants the option to be able to rent the RED out. So I was thinking of getting a basic package. Would anyone recommend the RED ONE lens set for sale on the store? Or should I look into another brand/type of lens set to start out with?

I entered my real name. Jon Furtado. Hoping they will change it soon.
 
You're going to have to give realistic numbers of what your client is willing to spend. You can have a very lean setup, and have a functioning RED to do what you want it to do, but not as easily as you'd like things to happen. Or you can have something full tricked out with all the bells and whistles, and offer a premium package with no compromise. Or somewhere in between, or a little bit of everything so you can offer up multiple packages at every price point.


It's very competitive depending on where you are renting out, LA and NY, prices have dropped a lot on insane packages just because so many people have one. Everybody will have a better 2 cents to put in once you write a number in.
 
If you are not planning to spend at least $50K or more on a package I'd take rental off the table completely in all but the most remote reaches of the world. Too many high end rental and production houses that have multiple complete packages are out there already with full tech support and service.

If it's intended to shoot projects you have on the books already go for it. But the notion that a basic RED package is a ticket toward rental profits is totally unrealistic.

Noaoh
 
They're looking to create a high end production company in the Palm Springs area. They've looking into cameras like the Sony EX3. But I just think that overall, a RED might be a better investment for them.
 
You probably want to keep an MX upgrade in mind too (you might be in for a wait if you want a brand new system though).

As for rental... keep in mind that there will be a whole host of Epics on the market over the next 12 months or so. Some people will stick to renting R1 for a while... but the Epics (and MX'd R1s) will soon take over the rental market.

If your guy is happy going 2nd hand.... there are alot of great deals flying around this week as people clamber to make their stage 2 upgrade. Check the marketplace on this forum.

re: lenses.... I think the RED zooms and primes are very nice for the price.
 
waywardsage said:
They're looking to create a high end production company in the Palm Springs area. They've looking into cameras like the Sony EX3. But I just think that overall, a RED might be a better investment for them.
Click to expand...

You're going to need more than one RED or one EX3 to "create a high end production company"

If your "client" wants us to build some serious packages, drop me a line with a list of equipment you want. But, don't waist my time if you are just kicking tires.

Scott: sschneider@fvesco.com
 
F/VESCO said:
You're going to need more than one RED or one EX3 to "create a high end production company"

If your "client" wants us to build some serious packages, drop me a line with a list of equipment you want. But, don't waist my time if you are just kicking tires.

Scott: sschneider@fvesco.com
Click to expand...

Your bedside manner with potential customers is wonderful. Thanks for the welcoming invite.
 
Jim Retar said:
You probably want to keep an MX upgrade in mind too (you might be in for a wait if you want a brand new system though).

As for rental... keep in mind that there will be a whole host of Epics on the market over the next 12 months or so. Some people will stick to renting R1 for a while... but the Epics (and MX'd R1s) will soon take over the rental market.

If your guy is happy going 2nd hand.... there are alot of great deals flying around this week as people clamber to make their stage 2 upgrade. Check the marketplace on this forum.

re: lenses.... I think the RED zooms and primes are very nice for the price.
Click to expand...

You bring up a good point with the flood of Epics and MX'd RED's soon. But it seems that the EPIC is going to be released in a staggered "Beta test" that will take a long time to figure out the kinks. I don't see this as a short term threat to the RED. What producer is going to jump at renting the EPIC to shoot his film when all the kinks aren't even worked out?!

It seems like a long road till the EPIC and SCARLET are true threats to the RED ONE.
 
From everything I have read.... i'd expect a fairly rapid rollout of Epics after Tattoo. I would imagine the major rental houses will be kitted out with problem free Epics within 12 months.

But yea, the MX'd R1s (and possibly some Alexas) will be the main rival until that point comes.

the marketplace is the place to be though... there are all sorts of offers flying around... if you can move quickly.
 
My set up is I think the minimum set up for a working RED to shoot films, and I have spent +60K...This inscludes the RED, 2 RED zoom lenses, matte box, filters, RED drive, CF cards, RED Rocket, rods, cables, EVF, monitor, batteries, charger, etc, etc...and there are still so many things I need and want. Like the RED prime set....another 19K...I think you just have to make your list and see how much it comes to....and then there is shipping to add to that as well.
 
Yeah, they're open to a used RED ONE. In fact, I think that might be more in their price range. I'm thinking that their price range is in the $50,000K mark. I'm hoping that I could get a set of RED primes with that and the camera system. If not, (forgive my ignorance) i'll have to let them know that's not realistic.
 
waywardsage said:
What producer is going to jump at renting the EPIC to shoot his film when all the kinks aren't even worked out?!
Click to expand...

Ha- welcome to RED. There isn't a producer shooting RED today who wouldn't jump to an available EPIC tomorrow because the 'kinks' in regards to the RED workflow are constantly being worked out... So something to keep in mind.

A RED ONE is not a viable long-term investment if the eye is toward renting. It will be supplanted by cameras already out over the next year and will be pretty well phased out once EPICs are shipping in quantity. RED has made no secret of this.

In Palm Springs you're very close to L.A. which is already flooded with tons of RED ONE packages fully kitted out and will be the first place to go for EPICs too. The competition at the low end is fierce so go in with both eyes open.

Not trying to scare you off but just saying if you are pushing the client toward RED as a long-term investment you need to be very clear with them that it's not that simple as a one-time investment. It's an ongoing series of significant investments that will be required in order to stay competitive.

If they've got the cash to go for it top end- then do your thing. But if they're presently eyeing the EX3 I'm wondering if they are really capitalized enough to take on RED in a competitive way. That can easily top $100K... just giving you the heads-up. :beer:

Noah
 
might be better to wait for the EPIC (if you have time) and jump the RED???
 
and at the 50k price range, used r1 packages have also floored in pricing. shop around, find someone with a decent kit already pre made for you already, and use leftover money you have to patch it back up. In your area, as Noah says, it's gonna be tough, so expect slow and low returns. Depending on what kind of work you guys are doing it might be a bad investment if a EX3 was even considered as an option. Don't lose site that this is a full on digital cinema system that has the flexibility to shoot a variety of things. But it's no joke, no par with f35, genesis, alexa, arri d-21, etc. etc. And a lot of people have them.

I think your goal should be to focus on what kind of clientele you want to have and are going to have. If an EX3 will get you that same kind of clients full tricked out, you might be saving yourself a lot a money and seeing a quick return on your equipment...

Just wanna make sure you guys are knowing what you get into that's all.
 
Noah Kadner said:
Ha- welcome to RED. There isn't a producer shooting RED today who wouldn't jump to an available EPIC tomorrow because the 'kinks' in regards to the RED workflow are constantly being worked out... So something to keep in mind.

A RED ONE is not a viable long-term investment if the eye is toward renting. It will be supplanted by cameras already out over the next year and will be pretty well phased out once EPICs are shipping in quantity. RED has made no secret of this.

In Palm Springs you're very close to L.A. which is already flooded with tons of RED ONE packages fully kitted out and will be the first place to go for EPICs too. The competition at the low end is fierce so go in with both eyes open.

Not trying to scare you off but just saying if you are pushing the client toward RED as a long-term investment you need to be very clear with them that it's not that simple as a one-time investment. It's an ongoing series of significant investments that will be required in order to stay competitive.

If they've got the cash to go for it top end- then do your thing. But if they're presently eyeing the EX3 I'm wondering if they are really capitalized enough to take on RED in a competitive way. That can easily top $100K... just giving you the heads-up. :beer:

Noah
Click to expand...

Thanks Noah. I appreciate you being candid. I'm being kept a bit in the dark on their budget. The client is not a digerati, so I'm trying to put this in terms he'll understand.

I might be shooting for him off and on, and I would like to start using a RED ONE sooner rather than later. It is the future. I feel that it'd be nice to just wait and get a RED SCARLET 35 so that the entire system would be more modular and upgradable. But who knows when this will come out? It's a far off prospect at the moment.

So do you think the current RED ONE is a bad investment for shooting any projects or rental at the moment for a startup production company?
 
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