Zacuto 35mm Shootout vs DSLR and Future Red

[Nick D]

Zacuto has done an excellent unbiased shootout series on 35mm vs DSLR, warts and all. I hope Red submits a 2/3" Scarlet for similar comparison or conducts similar tests as I think it would do extremely well...
:emote_popcorn:

 

[Sean Finnegan]

The first episode of the Zacuto shootout is totally awesome. As a Canon 7D owner, I find it fascinating that we're actually at the point where HDSLR cams are worth comparing to 35mm film which is pretty much the gold standard for quality in this industry...even if the HDSLR rigs weren't the "winners" of the test.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Great test and to say that if they would also add R-1-M-X to the test for sure it will beat all those DSLRs and get pretty close to film latitude.

Low Key with bulb light shot on R-1-M-X.

Get 4K TIFF>>>

 

[David Swan]

Zacuto has done an excellent unbiased shootout series on 35mm vs DSLR, warts and all. I hope Red submits a 2/3" Scarlet for similar comparison or conducts similar tests as I think it would do extremely well...
:emote_popcorn:

Link?
David

 

[Andrew Rieger]

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=42929

 

[Nick D]

Per Phil Bloom, "Just to be clear though, we did not do tests on the very known flaws of rolling shutter, aliasing and moire. We all know this is a big pain with DSLRs and of course does not exist in film, but then again every camera I have ever used has its flaws. We simply focused on latitude, resolution and sensitivity."

Glad to see a fair assessment of a workable piece of technology...

:nads:

 

[Subhadip Sen]

Nick, I read that on Phil Bloom's blog too. Instead of being fair, I think it is somewhat biased to skip over the rolling shutter and aliasing issues, which are pretty severe in some HDSLRs.

That said, I am looking forward to the future episodes.

The first was well done. I don't think it offered any surprises and was by no means exhaustive - they seemed like basic tests, though useful. And yes, film did seem to have a considerably advantage in latitude at the high end. (Even I thought of the M-X bulb test - and there's no doubt the M-X will be far ahead of the HDSLRs and right up there with film. It is also encouraging that 2/3" Scarlet is based on the same technology.)

Maybe the difference appeared lesser on the big screen, who knows? I am not convinced by the test chart they used though.

 

[Nick D]

Nick, I read that on Phil Bloom's blog too. Instead of being fair, I think it is somewhat biased to skip over the rolling shutter and aliasing issues, which are pretty severe in some HDSLRs.

That said, I am looking forward to the future episodes.

The first was well done. I don't think it offered any surprises and was by no means exhaustive - they seemed like basic tests, though useful. And yes, film did seem to have a considerably advantage in latitude at the high end. (Even I thought of the M-X bulb test - and there's no doubt the M-X will be far ahead of the HDSLRs and right up there with film. It is also encouraging that 2/3" Scarlet is based on the same technology.)

Maybe the difference appeared lesser on the big screen, who knows? I am not convinced by the test chart they used though.

No disagreements, but I think it's nice to see a professional shootout comparing DSLR "strengths" compared to film, and see under what circumstances it actually is useable.

Kind of like comparing a drawing done with No 2 pencil vs crayola box, sometimes it IS good enough in the artist's hand...

 

[Rob Ruffo]

The aliasing issue is a huge one - far more serious than the many non-pros who use DSLRs realize. DSLR footage broadcast in HD looks like complete crap because the aliasing artifacts prevent efficient compression.

DSLRs are great film school tools - really any other use is wishful thinking.

 

[Nick D]

Is good enough really not Good Enough?

Is good enough really not Good Enough?

The aliasing issue is a huge one - far more serious than the many non-pros who use DSLRs realize. DSLR footage broadcast in HD looks like complete crap because the aliasing artifacts prevent efficient compression.

DSLRs are great film school tools - really any other use is wishful thinking.

I hear you out for normal film production and VFX use, but think the aliasing has legitimately been discussed ad nauseum on these forums and many others. I have not purchased one yet because of the aliasing and my anticipated use of the body as part of a future stereo configuration, however they are "good enough" to many under certain circumstances and excellent for time lapses ...

I see no shortage of amateurs (and pros) using these cameras effectively as a "useful tool" in their low-budget productions, commercials or music videos to achieve a "film look", shallow DOF or multicam setup they otherwise would not have achieved on budget. To them I say "blaze on", and thanks for sharing, I'll tolerate that it might have looked better on film...

I also really see nobody declaring them a complete replacement for film or Red or broadcast or even wedding video cams for that matter in long-form use yet... but most say it's much more convenient than an EX1 or Panasonic with Letus, etc...

However, even today I saw a compelling review of the new Panasonic HDC-TM700 consumer cam that records "OK" 1080 60p which may have to do for me while waiting for Scarlet this year, warts and all.

In the end, I say it's great to have multiple lower cost tools available, be it Red, DSLR, consumer cam, as long as it intercuts and the client doesn't complain, then it's "good enough" ...

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

Per Phil Bloom, "Just to be clear though, we did not do tests on the very known flaws of rolling shutter, aliasing and moire. We all know this is a big pain with DSLRs and of course does not exist in film, but then again every camera I have ever used has its flaws. We simply focused on latitude, resolution and sensitivity."

Glad to see a fair assessment of a workable piece of technology...

:nads:

Ok, doing some free translation:

We're just surfing in the big wave of VDSLR hype so people think those are flawless systems and pimp them out with crazy expensive and cumbersome Zacuto gear.

:devil:

Great test and to say that if they would also add R-1-M-X to the test for sure it will beat all those DSLRs and get pretty close to film latitude.

Low Key with bulb light shot on R-1-M-X.

Get 4K TIFF>>>

Bad ass!

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Zacuto has done an excellent unbiased shootout series on 35mm vs DSLR, warts and all. I hope Red submits a 2/3" Scarlet for similar comparison or conducts similar tests as I think it would do extremely well...
:emote_popcorn:

It is not unbiased, except in showing the relative strengths of the various DSLRs. Ask someone who was there. It was carefully edited to remove all negative reactions to the DSLR footage.

Yes, Zacuto has no vested interest in which DSLR you buy, but they do have a HUGE vested interest in getting you to pick one of them.

It would be generous indeed for Zacuto, who sells $4000, mostly plastic "DSLR rigs" to discourage the spread of potential customers for their products. (BTW - What's that, maybe a 4000% mark-up? I understand how cine products are not mass-produced, and cost more per their complexity than say, a washing machine, and I do think everybody has a right to make a living, but there comes a point in pricing that is insulting to one's intelligence, where I conclude the seller is an unscrupulous sleazebag for even trying to sell at that price.)

DSLR buyers are ideal customers for a company like that. Since they think they got away with paying only $2500 for their new "pro camera" "just like the one House shoots with" they have lots of money left over, and since the ergonomics are so horrible, accessories are actually very much needed to make the thing usable.

There is only so far they can stretch the truth, however, which is why film is still shown has having "a few advantages" Really? Ya think? I don't understand, what do people really think this piece tells them?

I also find it interesting how somehow the resolution section never appeared. Maybe that's because the comparison made the DSLRs look rightfully ludicrously bad.

Yes, an MX Red would kill all the DSLRs, by miles and miles, as would a Red with just the old Mysterium (and properly graded) as would even an Ex1, or a good Canon camcorder with a good 35mm adapter (or even without one - people forget that many famous directors avoided shallow depth of filed throughout most of their work.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

I hear you out for normal film production and VFX use, but think the aliasing has legitimately been discussed ad nauseum on these forums and many others. I have not purchased one yet because of the aliasing and my anticipated use of the body as part of a future stereo configuration, however they are "good enough" to many under certain circumstances and excellent for time lapses ...

I see no shortage of amateurs (and pros) using these cameras effectively as a "useful tool" in their low-budget productions, commercials or music videos to achieve a "film look", shallow DOF or multicam setup they otherwise would not have achieved on budget. To them I say "blaze on", and thanks for sharing, I'll tolerate that it might have looked better on film...

I also really see nobody declaring them a complete replacement for film or Red or broadcast or even wedding video cams for that matter in long-form use yet... but most say it's much more convenient than an EX1 or Panasonic with Letus, etc...

However, even today I saw a compelling review of the new Panasonic HDC-TM700 consumer cam that records "OK" 1080 60p which may have to do for me while waiting for Scarlet this year, warts and all.

In the end, I say it's great to have multiple lower cost tools available, be it Red, DSLR, consumer cam, as long as it intercuts and the client doesn't complain, then it's "good enough" ...

No, good enough is when you've honored your craft by delivering the absolute best image you can within budget restrictions, even if it means the inconvenient transport of a large adapter rig, or some other inconvenience.

To aim for the bottom margin of your client's willingness to not fire you is a depressing stance.

 

[Nick D]

No, good enough is when you've honored your craft by delivering the absolute best image you can within budget restrictions, even if it means the inconvenient transport of a large adapter rig, or some other inconvenience.

To aim for the bottom margin of your client's willingness to not fire you is a depressing stance.

Whether their budget affords a Sony EX or Red rental doesn't bother me, but I don't know of many pros who shoot for the lower third of a client's expectations and earn a living. Ultimately, it's not my concern what camera to shoot with as long as the product is delivered and the check clears, that's good enough to me- I just won't include that project on my highlight reel if it's not my best recent work....

Being "EARTH DAY", it's a big ocean, and not everyone is shooting the next Titanic... I 'll leave the Whales for you and will buy a ticket to your next movie. I'm interested in marlins and the dolphins or plankton if that's what fills my book for that week- fortunately, there's room for productions of all budgets and sizes. I don't understand why tightened budgets mean roll the dice on a cheap cam body to save a buck, but I'm happy we have more low-end tools than ever by year end, though not necessarily "better" than film, Red MX, Panavision or Arri...

I also have no problem with a potential "Zacuto bias" as long as there's no fraud, because their gear is likely adaptable with Red scarlet and Epic as they release. Editing out comments on how pitiful DSLR footage looks? After all, they don't include aliasing/moire tests because they know they know they stink in that area, and what's the point of showing how bad a camera can look? All camera's have flaws depending on your need... nobody has made the perfect camera for all budgets or circumstances.

I grew up watching home movies on Super 8 and projector, VHS, DV and HDV never gave me that same experience as a viewer, and to me Scarlet will hopefully be the next best thing since then... well, call me nostalgic...

Back to the races...
:beatdeadhorse5: