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Gyro Units instead of Steadicam?

Jonathan Stevenson

Jonathan Stevenson

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I wanted to see if I could get a bit of advice in regards to gyro stabilization, as products like Kenyon gyros and such are very new to me. I am shooting a feature next year and was hoping to learn more about units such as this before I start testing with them.

It is my understanding that with a gyro unit, such as a Kenyon KS-6 or KS-8, are generally used as compliments to a steadicam system, making the rig much more solid to avoid that "floaty" look. But I've also heard you can attach these units to a small, lightweight camera such as an HVX200 or the upcoming Scarlets and Epics and use them as an alternative to a steadicam system. Is this correct? I think I heard somewhere that they used a gyro rig in Slumdog Millionaire. They simply attached the gyro unit directly to the bottom of the camera and were able to achieve near-steadicam stability because of the camera's size and weight (similar to Scarlet and Epic size I think). Does this sound right? Or are gyro units only good for adding additional stability to a steadicam. The only pictures I see on google are with gyros attached to some kind of secondary rig.

The reason I ask is that it seems with a stripped down, lightweight Scarlet with a gyro strapped to it, you could pull of some serious Neveldine/Taylor type stuff, minus the vomit-inducing shaky-cam. I'd love anyone's advice or help. I was checking out Constantine's running rig products and they seem awesome, but are all geared towards shoulder mounts. What if I just want to hold the camera by a top handle and run with the thing!? :thumbup:
 
Thanks for mentioning that, I was curious about their noise levels too. Most of the shots I'm thinking of doing would be MOS anyway.
 
I use Gyros on Steadicam vehicle mounts and in high wind conditions when antlers have become redundant. In both these circumstances audio is not a problem.

You can attach Gyros directly to a camera. They won't give you the same clean dolly/flying look with clean stops as Steadicam but it is a look nevertheless. I did it a few weeks ago hanging a RED out of a car window with two KS 6 s attached.

Its not enough to attach just the one Gyro. Gyros can rotate but resist twist. So its good to have one forwards which will protect pan and tilt but not yaw. Then have another sideways which will protect yaw and pan but not tilt. Maybe you want to have double on tilt and single on pan. That sir is up to you how you orientate them or how many you use.

The other thing is that they cage if you force the resistant over a certain amount (pan speed). If they cage the whole Gyro jumps and will not help you shot at all! Really it wont.

They need their own power supply and that has its own issues. They are noisy. Basically mate, practice your hand-held... its a far better look. They are a tool for very specific purposes.
 
Thanks for that. Good advice. Anyone else have experience with these?
 
Shane Kelly said:
Shane Hurlbut mentions them on the latest redcentre podcast, in short, he hates them and would rather stabilize a shot in post
Click to expand...
Oh really? Damn... I'll definitely give the episode a listen. So probably better to have someone fly the camera on a steadicam? What if it's out of our budget? Any other suggestions?
 
Just listened to Shane's interview. Man, that guy's a trip. Anyway, sounds like the gyros were crappy but only for his crazy action-packed style of shooting, which our feature is not. I guess what it comes down to is that I need to get a hold of one and test the damn thing.
 
The Kenyon Gyros have been around for a long time. I've traveled the world using them and they're great. Or as you perfectly say "awesome". You can handhold a 400mm shot or build your own helicopter mount using them. Das Boot, Jost, used them in the submarine. You are limited by the speed you can move with them (off axis) because of inertia. Their skin is thin for heat dissipation thus the whining sound is heard from the fast rpm. They have a panning speed of about thirty degrees per second. If you pan or tilt too fast they'll "buck". I also recall a customs official asking me to take one apart because they look like a small bomb. I've used them on a steadicam only to shoot a perfect shot in the wind. These gyros were designed for the military to hold rifles and binoculars steady. Like anything they are another tool that can be used for an "awesome" shot.
 
That sounds promising. It might still work for what I want to use it for. Nothing super complicated. The bucking makes sense- when you turn it fast enough, the gyro 'catches up" with the speed at which the internal disk is spinning, so it takes off like a drill or something. As long as I keep it pretty straight, sounds like it'll work fine.
 
I agree with Thomas and Redsail. It's a tool like any tool. It has it's advantages and limits. In,deed, it wont help your shot if you have to make quick pans, because of the extra inertia you have to overcome (aded by the gyro(s)). It's fantastic to make shots on long lenses (cfr. the military use on rifles) and to resist wind (eg with or without steadicam). But in it's not a tool for constant use. In general, practising your handheld technique would be the best.
 
one thing you have to be concerned with is the hi resolution vibration that they put out.
Even though you may not feel the vibration yourself, the RED hard drives do.
We cannot use the RED Hd's at all when we have them on the Kenyon gyros the drives wont even mount. Put the flash cards in, all good.
There must be a really tiny vibration that is so hi frequency that the hard drives cannot handle it.
 
I am trying to put together a dual KS8 shouder mount for Red One and Epic X. I can get the KS8's and dual controller "refurbed" from Kenyon for a decent price, but I need some help picking an appropriate shoulder mount (mantis type I guess) and making the modifications to hold the gyros in a configuration that will maximize stabilization on the pitch axis more than yaw and roll. This would be used mainly for shooting from a moving pickup truck, from boats, ATVs, some handheld walking, etc.

Are there any companies in the LA or OC area that might be able to help me put together such a shoulder mount? I chatted with the guys at Maxx digital and they seemed interested in helping. I'm just wondering if there are any companies who are really experts at this and might have something lying around, ready to go, just sitting on a shelf?

I also want to try to power the gyros with some v-lock 150Wh bricks on a belt... I imagine that won't be very difficult. Would it make sense to mount the REDRAM on my belt also, opposite the battery, to balance out the belt and keep the mass of the Red shoulder setup lower? Since I will be shooting 3K 16:9 50fps my current 8GB CF cards won't cut it.
 
It really helps to play with a set for a while. That way you get an idea what they do well and not so well. Personally, I like to have to ks-4s. They are lighter, and 2 of them stabilize plenty. Look at it this way, they increase the inertia, without increasing the mass. So effectively, you have a much bigger, heavier camera, that wants to stay where it is, without having a bigger heavier camera.

Nick
 
Hate to revive such an old thread, but I didn't come across any others searching for this topic, so I'm wondering what people are thinking of gyros these days-- which they might recommend, possibly in conjunction w/ something like an easyrig? I've got something coming up this week and with movi and its ilk, rentals availability limited and somewhat pricey. Looking into some alternatives.
 
The Kenyon ( Kenlab ) gyro seems to be pretty much the only system of its type around. It is also the simplest in general principle. It works by inertia, physically resisting all moves unwanted or not of anything it is attached to. While it gives, it also takes back. Beyond a certain permitted speed of movement, it will fight you quite violently. If you push too hard, you may damage the gyroscopes. The Kenyon gyro adds weight to anything it attaches to. Freehanding with one or a pair for any length of time may require you to build up a prior fitness level with resistance weights or dedicated exercises. A single gyro unit consists of a pair of gyroscopes rotating in opposition inside a metal cylinder. This stabilises two of three axes. You need two if you want to stabilise on all three axes. Pairs of gyros, their cables and fixtures become a bit of a Frankenstein rig. Kenyon have now made a self contained 3 axis system which is much simpler to mount and use. It is basically two gyroscope pairs in one cross-shaped enclosure. If you want to be both very agile, yet stabilised, I don't think there is yet a system suitable that does not include two processes, a stabilised platform and a means of moving the camera on it. Such are complex and until recently, very heavy and expensive. There are now other less expensive systems which use a gyro as a sensor and servo motors to track the stability of that sensor and therefore keep the camera relatively steady. I like the Kenyon system because of relative simplicity. You fasten the camera to it, attach power, turn it on, wait for it to spool up to speed and that's it. Here is an example of what happens when you "fight" a gyro for movement. In one instance I was trying for ridiculous close-ups with a long lens - as in 500mm on a 2/3" sensor which is close to about 900mm on your 5K cameras. ---- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCIFj1NVR08 ---- It was a big ask of the system. There was a bit of wind-buffet happening as well. This was a single Kenyon KS8 under a SI2K camera min-head with a Sigma 50mm - 500mm zoom attached. Short of having a helicopter at your disposal, this light aircraft is about as camera-friendly as it gets. I understand it is certified for ops with the right rear cabin door/cargo door off. The wing struts are well forward out of the way. It gets a bit windy but it is not bad. ---- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6UvcQUKwSE ----
 
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