Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Arri Rumor

Status
Not open for further replies.
So, simply put, persistence of vision coupled with (among other things) the arbitrary dispersion of film grain might just result in an unsharp mask effect?
And the anchored position of pixels might account for lack of same phenomenon in the digital end product.???? Noise is random though. Hmm, but then again it's non image making info.
 
yes there is more image information at 24fps with film. imagine a very fine line that a cmos sensor might not pick up due to its pixel grid. the random grains of the film might pick this line up at some places in one frame, then at other places in the next and so on. played at 24fps you'll see a faint solid line.

but it's also true that a slightly soft picture with just a little grain seems sharper to us than without the grain.
 
Irmeli R said:
yes there is more image information at 24fps with film. imagine a very fine line that a cmos sensor might not pick up due to its pixel grid. the random grains of the film might pick this line up at some places in one frame, then at other places in the next and so on. played at 24fps you'll see a faint solid line.
Click to expand...

That could be the case if the assumption is that the film dead nuts on with no gate sway and weave. In reality, that line is dancing around tiny amounts and making it less sharp unless you go scan everything in at 8k and restabilize (which also add some softness).

The grain and the print contrast curve adds more to the appearance of sharpness then anything else. They eye locks onto the pattern from the grain and sees it as detail.
 
Glenn Kennel said:
ARRI announced our digital camera roadmap at IBC in September 2009. Alexa is the informal name for this product. There is no such thing as a D27!! Since this announcement, information on the Alexa camera family have been posted on our website at http://www.arridigital.com/teaser. We are on schedule and on target for the formal introduction of the first model at NAB, currently called the Alexa EV (electronic viewfinder), and our latest prototypes are exceeding our expectations. Rather than speculate about rumors, let me invite you to our website for the facts, and if you like, join our user forum for more information and an ongoing dialog with ARRI D21 customers and users, and real insight into our new cameras.
Click to expand...

Thank you for weighing in on this thread. I haven't had a chance to shoot Arri Digital yet, but I'm looking forward to the Alexa lineup. Sounds like good offerings.

I would also like to thank you (and Jim Jannard and David Mullen and others) for being the voices of reason on what this thread.
 
I love this forum. This is at least the second time a rumor based thread has caused the owner or rep from the company in question to join the forum and set the record straight. If nothing else it speaks to the power and influence of the reduser community.
 
Glenn Kennel said:
...and our latest prototypes are exceeding our expectations..
Click to expand...

Glenn, Welcome to Reduser - the ultimate place to spill the beans.
So, tell us more about the exceeded expectations :ihih:
 
Brad Webb said:
I love this forum. This is at least the second time a rumor based thread has caused the owner or rep from the company in question to join the forum and set the record straight. If nothing else it speaks to the power and influence of the reduser community.
Click to expand...

That's certainly one way to look at it :001_unsure:
 
Has there been any feature films that have used 4K DI and Film Out ever?
Not IMAX, but regular cinema release.


Are these cinemas being fitted for 4K projectors actually going to be showing 4K or upressed 2K?


A buddy of mine who was getting quotes for updating a cinema for digital projection told me that the distributor approved playback system he was getting the quote on was 2K, even though the projector was 4K.
 
Sure, a couple movies have done an all-4K D.I. -- "Spiderman 2" comes to mind, but even then, the efx work was uprezzed from 2K. "Black Dahlia". That's all that springs to mind though. Some recent restoration work at Warners MPI has been in 4K for old titles such as "The Godfather" and some Technicolor titles.

Yes, even though many theaters will be getting Sony 4K projectors, they will probably be showing mostly 2K DCI files.
 
Irmeli R said:
yes there is more image information at 24fps with film. imagine a very fine line that a cmos sensor might not pick up due to its pixel grid. the random grains of the film might pick this line up at some places in one frame, then at other places in the next and so on. played at 24fps you'll see a faint solid line.

but it's also true that a slightly soft picture with just a little grain seems sharper to us than without the grain.
Click to expand...

LOL! I love this. We are now officially "Splitting Hairs" on this thread. I think this calls for a toast.
 
it was an example to explain how it works..any detail benefits from it
 
David Mullen ASC said:
Sure, a couple movies have done an all-4K D.I. -- "Spiderman 2" comes to mind, but even then, the efx work was uprezzed from 2K. "Black Dahlia".
Click to expand...

David,

I'm pretty sure the actual supervised DI for SpidermanII was done at 1K. EFilm did not have the infrastructure at that point to support realtime 4K in their DI suites. Nor did they have 4K projectors in the DI suites.

The color information was applied to the 4K files, and the filmout was certainly done from 4K. But the supervised sessions were not at 4K.

Lucas
 
Brad Webb said:
I love this forum. This is at least the second time a rumor based thread has caused the owner or rep from the company in question to join the forum and set the record straight. If nothing else it speaks to the power and influence of the reduser community.
Click to expand...

Michael Bravin said:
That's certainly one way to look at it :001_unsure:
Click to expand...

The glass is always half full...

:001_unsure: too
 
I was at Camerimage this year and visited the Arri booth. Got to pick up a prototype Alexa and they had a working sensor with a live feed. It looked impressive. Certainly did not hear anything about a D27 though, and neither did anyone I was with.

edit: didn't read all posts.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
By "all-4K D.I." I meant the scanning and the outputting, whether or not the color-correction used proxies.
Click to expand...

"Hancock" was done as a 4K DI and also went out as a 4K DCP. "2012" allegedly was a 4K DI as well, but as with Spiderman 3, the VFX were not necesarily done in that format. Nearly all future Sony releases will likely be done at 4K, in part due to Sony's investment in their own DI facility (Sony Colorworks).
 
There is no chance in the world ARRI spent the money they have spent in developing and marketing the ALEXA cameras to release a camera that will render all of them obsolete just 3 months later. Their top end Alexa camera won't be out until December 2010, which means this so called 4K camera would be out before their top end Alexa camera is even out. This rumour is nonsense. They are providing upgrade paths for D20 and D21 owners which means many will migrate over the next 12 months after release.

Anyone is free to say anything to anyone but that doesn't mean it is actually true. It just doesn't make sense at all. Think about what you are suggesting. Has anyone heard of this 4K camera? No. It's like RED releasing their new cameras and 4 months later releasing a new set of cameras that noone has ever heard of that renders all cameras obsolete. Who's going to buy them? There would be a lot of furious customers out there...

Developing a camera is not cheap, not cheap at all and they are in the business for a reason. Forget it. I had a private demo (well, sort of as most of the internals were not there but hey specs are specs..) of the 3 cameras 3 months ago and talking to their team ARRI doesn't believe 4K is necessary. Whether that is correct or not is a different story altogether but it certainly is not in their plate. All theatre release are delivered at 2K and most if not all of current new TV shows done at a maximum delivery resolution of 1080P. You can see their point clearly... And switching to 4K delivery is not as easy as installing a projector in a cinema, there are massive financial implications, I mean massive. it is as much as politics as it is global economics.
 
I respectfully disagree with you. This rumor is not nonsense, but hardened by the fact that I heard the very same detailed report from a colleague in Prague last week, just hours before it was posted on REDUSER. I very much doubt that my contact is the same as the one referred to in this thread. Present at this presentation were Panavision, Panther and Vantage/Germany.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top