Canon K-35 Aspherical BNCR "Super Speed"

[Jorge Díaz-Amador]

Hey Guys,

Been *very* busy and away from this forum for quite a while. I've managed to get a lot of old work that had been in the shop far too long out the door and off to it's owners. It's a big feeling of relief for me.

At this time I have had to made the regrettable but necessary and unavoidable decision to abandon motion picture (film) camera service. A lot of time and money spent learning how to service ARRI film cameras has been rendered obsolete.

I have switched to cine optical work only, a switch that I had contemplated as far back as 2004. I've been servicing cine lenses as long as I have been servicing cameras (since 1999).

But it seems to me that the unique market for custom conversions of cine lenses might be the best way for me to use my skills and capabilities.

Today I'm inquiring to see how many owners/users of the Canon K-35 Aspherical prime lenses (originally in BNCR mount) are out there.

I'm currently developing a PL mount conversion for these lenses. The first lens (the 24 mm T1.6) is done. This is the simplest of the lenses to convert and the least costly. I designed a new part to replace the rear section of the lens. A stock Zeiss PL mount fits perfectly after conversion.

The other lenses are tricky... The 55 and 85 mm have fixed rear elements that must be very carefully mounted in the new rear cone, as well as the linear guides. The 35 mm does not have a fixed element but has some dimensional issues that need to be addressed. BNCR is much larger than PL mount and sometimes lens designers make housings that are too big to fit inside a PL mount. I have not had a chance to examine an 18 mm K-35.

This kind of work is very demanding. It takes a lot of very careful measurement, CAD design work, short-run or one-off high precision metalwork to exacting tolerances, and careful fitting of all the parts, followed by optical testing.

I have over $50K invested in tools and I feel that this is one area where I can put my skills and my unique tool and machines to work. However, I hope that potential customers can understand that the work will always be slow and costly. The only thing that might mitigate that is to have parts made in small batches as opposed to one at a time.

If anyone has a set of the original (aluminum BNCR mount) Canon K-35's, PM me so we can discuss the potential conversion of your lenses.

At this point, pricing has not been determined, and since I will be offering reduced pricing to the first few customers, I will be keeping the actual pricing confidential for now. All conversions will require a 50% deposit upon the commencement of work (since the conversion is permanent, except for the 24 mm).

If there is enough volume where I can stabilize the prices, like I did for my ARRI 16SR Super 16 conversion, then I could publish prices, but of course, they will be subject to change at any time. I am always subject to change in the costs of raw materials and the specialized tooling that I use, most of which comes from Switzerland.

The most important thing to me is to do factory quality work - or better. If I'm going to cut into a lens made by Canon, I want to make sure that the parts I am making are 100% as good as what they would have made at the factory.

I look forward to hearing from anyone that is interested in this service.

 

[Rob Gardner]

This is very interesting Jorge. We have a set of K-35's, one of which is in PL and the rest of which are in BNCR, and we have been very impressed with the PL mounted lens (the only one we can actually put on a camera) and of course with its speed. So we have been mulling over the possibility of having them converted. These are older lenses, but very nice ones and if the cost of conversions was at all reasonable, we would certainly consider it.

We have an 18mm 2.8 in BNCR and an 18mm 1.6 in PL, and 24mm, 35mm, 55mm in BNCR. We'd be happy to send them to you so you can scope them out and give us a price to convert them.

Please let me know what you think.

Rob

 

[Jorge Díaz-Amador]

Rob,

I don't know that the 18mm T2.8 was part of the K-35 set, since they were all "Super Speed". The original Ad I have shows 24, 35, 55 and 85 mm only.

 

[Kirby Hamilton]

Jorge.
K-35 - 24,35,55.85
Cooke - 20-100 25-250
Unknown manufacturer - 18mm
Canon - 300mm
All in bncr mounts.
350 miles from you in Jacksonvlle.

Kirby Hamilton
kirby@kirbyhamilton.com
www.kirbyhamilton.com

 

[Nick Gardner]

Hi,

Nick (Gardner Films, same as Rob) here, we do in fact have an 18mm t2.8 labeled "k-35" as well as the t1.5 version. I have seen several of them. The whole history of these lenses is murky. I considered you the expert on these too ;-)

Nick

 

[Job Scholtze]

I got a full set of K-35 superspeeds and had my pro 35 rebuild to take the bncr mount as that was the best and cheapest solution. I am intressed to know how much a set of 5 conversion would be?

 

[David W. Jones]

Rob,

I don't know that the 18mm T2.8 was part of the K-35 set, since they were all "Super Speed". The original Ad I have shows 24, 35, 55 and 85 mm only.

Jorge, Canon issued a standard speed set of these lenses, as well as the two super speed sets.

All the best!

Dave

 

[Jorge Díaz-Amador]

I think it's funny that I'm considered an expert on a set of lenses released when I was about 8 years old and that so far I have only ever seen one full set in person...

The only info I have is a Cinema Products ad from about 1976. At that point, the full set was 24, 35, 55, 85.

From what I've seen the optical performance of these lenses is quite good. They don't have quite the contrast of Carl Zeiss, but that can be mitigated shooting digitally (in post), and can sometimes be an advantage with a digital sensor.

The resolution is definitely there. These are not weird no-name lenses, but come from one of the best optical companies in the world.

I'm just trying to get an idea of how many sets are out there. The serial numbers I see are very low. It looks like the first two digits are the "year of manufacture" and then usually one or two zeros and a single or tow digit number. That would indicate very limited production.

Also trying to keep some cash flow going here so I can continue working on all these lens conversions, that take a long time, and still pay bills and deal with the greatly increased cost of the tooling I use.

Keep chiming in guys... how many sets are out there?

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

to save you the grief..

to save you the grief..

Jorge, contact me privately or call 805 499-9966

 

[Tony Covell]

Hi George,
A very bold move and I applaud your move in this direction. I will always bear you in mind. Your early work on ARRI products was always 1st class.
All the very best
Tony Covell.

 

[Augustine Arredondo]

Quality work

Quality work

Hi guys, I just wanted to chime in after receiving a lens converted by Jorge. I for one can attest to the quality of his work. To say i am impressed/flabbergasted/over the moon would just not be enough. The quality of work he delivered and the openness of communication along the way was among the best i have ever received. Keep it up, sir. I will be coming back for more.

-A


Note - He converted a 1969 50mm Lomo square front to PL mount. This was no small task. The results are breathtaking.

 

[Jorge Díaz-Amador]

Thanks Augie!

But now I'm in trouble... Everybody will want conversions of old LOMO's and they are *so* difficult to do. Great glass, Soviet mechanics... you get the idea.

It seems to me like the spy satellite / recon aircraft guys designed the optics, the guys who made the spy optics manufactured and coated the glass, and then the underpaid, under-equipped workers had to actually make the lens housing.

So it was a *bear* to get in focus. But when I did I was *shocked* to see 100 lp/mm on an anamorphic lens wide open.

As they used to say in the USSR: "They pretend to pay us, and we pretend to work". They must have pretended better with the optical guys.

Good luck with your shoot Augie, and thanks so much for your patience. Send me some stills or a link to some moving images.

 

[Jorge Díaz-Amador]

Jorge, Canon issued a standard speed set of these lenses, as well as the two super speed sets.

All the best!

Dave

Dave,

Thanks! You seem to have the best information about these lenses that I've come across. Perhaps we can combine our knowledge and I will volunteer to write an article about the lenses on cinematechnic.com so that there can be one place for people to go and read the history. Of course I'll give you full credit as a source.

Then you won't have to keep typing it over and over again every time a K-35 thread comes up. Just give 'em the link and off ya go...

 

[David W. Jones]

See now I'm starting to feel really old for remembering all this dribble from the past.
I'm also pretty good with 50's 60's & 70's Ferrari's so if you ever get stuck!
At any rate, I owned some of the Canon primes & zooms many moons ago, and as good as they were, locally they were a second rate kit.
Not because they really were, but because of the old add agency buzz word game that has been played for so long.
Anyone shooting commercials for an agency has been through it... Do you edit on an "AVID", do you shoot in "24P", can you do "HD"? Back then the buzz words were a little different. Is your camera an "ARRI", do you have "Zeiss Lens", can you pull a VHS off the video tap? Back then I used mainly Eclair NPR's for 16mm & sync, and CM3 for 35 mos work. Both had a great picture once they hit the air, really no difference from the quality of any other camera from the era, Arri, Aaton, Mitchell, and the canon lenses on par with anything out there. But unless you had a "Buzz Word" product, you didn't get the work.
It's too bad we don't have some way to foresee the future, because when I sold my film gear years back, I pretty much threw-in the lenses to push the sale along. All my tripods, matte box's, filters, follow focus's, everything.
Who knew that any of that stuff was going to work with this new digital technology.

Dave

 

[Jorge Díaz-Amador]

Dave,

Yes I know all about it:

Agency: "We're looking for a DP that has experience shooting cars"
DP: "I've shot car spots"
Agency: "Yes, but have you shot a red car"
DP: "Um... no we didn't have any red ones"
Agency: "Sorry, we're looking for a DP that has experience shooting red cars"

The Carl Zeiss lenses have a particular "snap" because of high contrast combined with a slightly cool color rendition that makes white look "whiter" also increasing apparent contrast.

Combined with film, especially the older film that wasn't as sharp and high resolution as today's stocks, it was a perfect combo.

With the high resolution and contrast of digital cine sensors, I think lenses with a little less contrast and saturation can look quite nice. Also you don't need as much micro-contrast (edge sharpness) with a digital sensor, since the electronics give you some of that inherently.

I used to have a hard time selling my Angenieux 11,5-138 HR zoom on S16 shoots to these misinformed producers and directors who thought the Zeiss Vario-Sonnar was the only good zoom. I'd talk them into it and they were literally shocked at the transfer to see how beautiful the look of the HR was.

I love Zeiss, I work on them all the time and I have a good relationship with the company, but they are not the only good lenses ever made.

 

[Mitch Gross]

Dave,

Yes I know all about it:

Agency: "We're looking for a DP that has experience shooting cars"
DP: "I've shot car spots"
Agency: "Yes, but have you shot a red car"
DP: "Um... no we didn't have any red ones"
Agency: "Sorry, we're looking for a DP that has experience shooting red cars"

Not to hijack your thread, but I have to share. I once got a call for a shoot featuring a horseback chase in the forest done day for night. "Perfect," I said, "I have a horsechase in the forest done day for night on my sample reel." I send it over and next day get a call. "Your reel has guys on the horses and we need women. Do you have any horsechases in the forest done day for night with female riders?"

Yeah, sure. I'll send that right over.

 

[Peter Mosiman]

Not to hijack your thread, but I have to share. I once got a call for a shoot featuring a horseback chase in the forest done day for night. "Perfect," I said, "I have a horsechase in the forest done day for night on my sample reel." I send it over and next day get a call. "Your reel has guys on the horses and we need women. Do you have any horsechases in the forest done day for night with female riders?"

Yeah, sure. I'll send that right over.

Bahaha. Hilarious.

BTW. This was a fascinating thread to read Jorge. I know that Rick Darge has a set of K35's.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34538

 

[Jorge Díaz-Amador]

"Do you have any horsechases in the forest done day for night with female riders?"

Yeah, sure. I'll send that right over.

LOL!! It's not thread hijacking if it gets a good laugh...

Still working on those K-35's and those Technovision lenses... (In other words I have no life now).

 

[Jorge Díaz-Amador]

I'm about to take my first batch of parts for anodizing in something like 3 years or more. So it seems like maybe things are turning around a bit. At least I can see some light at the end of the tunnel.

I was thinking yesterday about how some people will come here on reduser and complain when a technician/vendor/etc. does not answer the phone fast enough to satisfy them. I've spend the last three days trying to get people to return calls (one of them still hasn't... hint... hint...)

Am I not going to take my stuff to the best anodizers in South Florida because the guy I deal with didn't return my call (even though they haven't got any business from me in over 3 years)?

I people are starting to come to the realization that not every vendor of cine equipment is a medium-sized businesses with dedicated phone staff. The guys that are willing to do the highly specialized work are always going to be very busy and have very limited phone time. They're usually one-man shops. That's just the way it is.

Now, on another note, I will, at some point in the future, have a Techno-Canon 20mm T2.0 custom converted to PL mount available for sale. I have confirmed this lens covers Full Frame 35 mm (24 x 36 mm). If anyone is interested let me know. I will have to make some parts, so knowing someone wants it will make that happen sooner.

I might even have a few of the old-school Zeiss lenses as well. But that's about it. I'm almost completely out of inventory.

 

[Jorge Díaz-Amador]

I found out that the 18 mm and 24 mm Canon K-35 lenses are similar design, so my lens mount conversion (BNCR -> PL) should work for both. But I still haven't had a chance to examine and measure an 18 mm K-35.

I'll post photos of the 24 mm T1.6 PL converted K-35 once I get the parts back from anodizing early next week.