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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Oct 29th cut-off

David Rasberry said:
The 4 stage approach seems fair to me after the major contributions early adopters have made to the development program.
Show me any other company that would even give a full credit trade in for a new camera period.
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Exactly, Anyone who's complaining about the upgrade program is simply suffering from a severe case of entitlement.
 
Peter Matthes said:
I don't need a reguritation of the RED credio. I know it already. Price changes and delivery date postponments are completely understandable when one is breaking new ground with new products. However misinformation is not.

[…]

If you read the reaction to this announcement you will see this disappointment and complaint from many others as well. Do you suppose they were imaginig those misleading comments as well?
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Peter,

You are treading in dangerous waters here, better back-up your accusations.

I am not working for RED, but where did RED give misinformation?

Jim said that there would not be a cut-off date for the Epic-X trade-in. Delivered. (Yes, those who ordered before the 30th have more trade-in options, but that does not affect the point.)
 
Brad Webb said:
You forgot one thing Jonathan:

:closed2ur0:
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Haha, thanks Brad, I'll remember that for next time. Ben Franklin used to sign all of his scientific documents with some phrase (that now escapes me) that was Latin for "end of discussion". This would be an appropriate place for it I believe.
 
Jonathan Stevenson said:
I repeat....

Anyone who buys a new RED ONE or a used RED ONE and transfers ownership after yesterday... will be able to trade it in for $17,500 credit on an EPIC-X Brain ONLY (STAGE Four).

Easy stuff to understand here.
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That's not what the graphic says:
"Stage Four price is $28,000.00"

http://red.cachefly.net/OctoberPost.jpg

According to the graphic, what you stated is Stage Three.
 
Stage three also includes a bunch of "free" stuff...
 
Andrew McCarrick said:
That's not what the graphic says:
"Stage Four price is $28,000.00"

http://red.cachefly.net/OctoberPost.jpg
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The Epic-X price is $28000 at all four stages, just with different perks included in the package. Stage 1 doesn't get trade in credit, Beta testers pay the full $28k.

Stage 4: People buying a RED 1 after the 29th, get full trade in credit towards Epic body only. Seems very clear to me, and fair.
 
David Rasberry said:
The Epic-X price is $28000 at all four stages, just with different perks included in the package. Stage 1 doesn't get trade in credit, Beta testers pay the full $28k.

Stage 4: People buying a RED 1 after the 29th, get full trade in credit towards Epic body only. Seems very clear to me, and fair.
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That's not what that graphic says... I see nothing about a trade-in.

graphic.png
 
Martin Weiss said:
Peter,

You are treading in dangerous waters here, better back-up your accusations.
The purpose of STAGEs ONE-THREE was to reward people who believed in the program and fought through the process with us. Buying today does not qualify for the same level of reward.D, but where did RED give misinformation?

Jim said that there would not be a cut-off date for the Epic-X trade-in. Delivered. (Yes, those who ordered before the 30th have more trade-in options, but that does not affect the point.)
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Martin,

I work in the film business. Treading in dangerous water is a Tuesday for me.

I am simply saying that there was conflicting information given about the cut-off point. If for the life of me I could figure out how to properly search this message board I would specifically quote it.

If you look at the "Reactions to the announcement" thread you will see others quoting the same thing. One poster puts the words "that would not be fair" in quotes.

To be honest, at this point, I really don't care.
 
Andrew McCarrick said:
Or Jim's post is incorrect.
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If Jim made the statement he will stand behind it. He did say the announcement date would not be the cutoff date on R1 trade in credit, and it isn't. There are just more value added rewards for the early adopters.
 
If you look at this post

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=501425&postcount=13

JIM says "Ooops... forgot S35 on the list by accident. I will update shortly." this might indicate that the #4 item might have been done in a hurry, to get the update up, and thereby missing the obivous - that any RED ONE will qualify for the trade in, but not with the extras.

Just think about it, without this, the sale of RED ONEs would stop now, and I am sure RED wants to sell them out.
 
Andrew McCarrick said:
Or Jim's post is incorrect.
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I'd be willing to bet an Epic that Jim's post is correct. The lack of information on the Stage graphic is much more likely than him typing with his eyes closed.

At this point, this thread is just plain silly. Buy a Red tomorrow, you can still get the $17,500 trade in towards an Epic brain. Boo hoo if you didn't buy an Epic 3 days ago and you're not "entitled" to your free modules. $17,500 is a HUGE damn discount, I bet you a second Epic that you wont find that anywhere else.
 
Exactly as David says. You can buy the R1 now, use in the meantime, get full credit for the body when you trade it in. You even have the advantage of equipping it in anticipation of trading it in -- probably in not too distant future if you choose. And if you don't, you still have a great competitive camera for a fraction of anything in its class.

It's strange how when you try to do the right thing -- and have raised expectations with beyond the call fairness -- there are always those who never think it's fair enough.

And we're in the making movies arena -- what better one to learn fairness in terms of effort, talent, reward is often pretty random, even perverse sometimes.
 
Jonathan Stevenson said:
Exactly, Anyone who's complaining about the upgrade program is simply suffering from a severe case of entitlement.
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With all due respect Johathan, I disagree with this statement. I was one of the first to bring up the cutoff date in one of the other threads. If you read my post you will see that I am expressing my thoughts based on frustration of having missed out. I am not complaining and I do not especially feel any more entitled to be given consideration than any other posters or users. I am happy for those who qualify for the upgrade, whether they have been with the program for a long time or have just joined a few days ago.

Please show some courtesy to those who have missed out and don't assume you understand everyone's situation and intent. I am happy to accept any decision that RED makes regarding their sales and trade-in policies but still feel that I should be able to express my thoughts on this matter, which I did, appreciating the generosity of Jim Jannard and the often difficult decisions that he has to make. I will continue to support RED and will buy a camera when the time is right and my company can afford one.

Providing Red with feedback is positive and is regularly encouraged.
 
It seems there are a lot of people feeling unnecessary disappointment or frustration or some sense of unfairness about the so-called "cut off" date.

Just to reiterate, as far as I understand and many others here have stated -- nobody has missed the cutoff date for trading in a Red 1 -- if you read Jim's posts, the Red 1 still gets the full 17.5 K trade in value against an Epic X (28K) --just not the extra freebee goodies Jim will bestow on the people who purchased and paid for their Red1 before Oct 29.

So it's only a "cut-off" in the sense of the extra modules that will be given with the trade-in. The Red1 body may still be traded in for credit against the Epic X.

If this isn't so, please correct. Best of luck to all.
 
I can imagine how frustrating it would be for people who were deliberating carefully about the purchase of a RED one with the EPIC in mind. I am normally one to be like that.

However, I think what RED's point of view is (though stated only in fragments) and a point of view which might make the situation easier to digest is this:

RED made a promise: "Obsolescence is Obsolete." Then they decided it would be smarter to redesign their camera from scratch pretty much. Yes, you can upgrade your RED, but they knew that all the people who threw a lot of money at them early on would feel a little cheated, so they needed to make a concession. But where do you stop? The first 100 cameras? The first 500 cameras? At some point, some one is going to feel cheated. So at one point Jim made a post under his "Recon" section clearly stating that people are going to wish they had bought a RED One when they announce the Epic. I think that was pretty clear. Of course, only clear if you were active enough to read the forums or talk to people who do. So - I could see some frustration if that wasn't the case. But after you make the announcement of what is to come, I can see the RED point of view that they have to draw the line somewhere and this is the most obvious place.

So - yes, if you're in the category that gets burned by it, it's still going to suck. However, if you really think of the logic, I think there might be some condolence simply in that it would be hard to pick a better day for the cut off.


I actually get caught up a little in the stage deliveries. It's not ideal for my person preference of stage, but I can still understand the logic behind it. Doesn't mean I have to like it.
 
David Rasberry said:
The 4 stage approach seems fair to me after the major contributions early adopters have made to the development program.
Show me any other company that would even give a full credit trade in for a new camera period.
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..well you can upgrade your Red One to a varicam if you have the extra dough needed, im sure thats the best plan.. :cheers2:

what interests me is.. will the epix-x / mysterium-x sensor be upgradeable to a monstro sensor for $4500 etc?.. or does the modular approach mean spending considerably more to upgrade sensors ie, via a $33,000 brain upgrade etc?
 
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