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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Another hint...

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PE was shot with a 360 degree shutter. Which screams out "VIDEO" to the subconscience. It threw me totally off the storyline.

Can't blame that look on the tool used, but on whoever made the (artistic? financial?) decision to shoot fully open.
 
Jeff Bruno said:
Haha, whoa you swooped down fast.

I have no idea myself what Public Enemies was shot on, I have not seen it. But I know from just the trailer it was definitely not film. I was speaking of digital vs. film and not specifically red vs. film.
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RED is digital... and most folks think that RED looks different than most video.

Jim
 
Dear Jim,

Back on the thread's subject... May I ask -- will the new deal apply also to people willing to keep their RED ONEs and buy the 6K Epic instead of the 5K Epic?

Also -- off the thread's subject this time... the schedule hit that MONSTRO took, is the same one for Mysterium-X (not longer)? Hopefully the MONSTRO will not come way, way after the X. Many people are eagerly waiting for it, and plan to skip X altogether.

Thanks so much!
 
Jeff Bruno said:
Haha, whoa you swooped down fast.

I have no idea myself what Public Enemies was shot on, I have not seen it. But I know from just the trailer it was definitely not film. I was speaking of digital vs. film and not specifically red vs. film.

Sorry if it sounded like I think all digital is the same. Red is closer to the film range than most digital cameras, but when you look at everything as a whole, film is still sitting at the top below everything else.
Click to expand...

It was partially film and partially video...mostly video. F950 and F23 plus some elements were shot with EX1 and they used Arri 235/435 as well. Haven't seen the film so couldn't tell you what bits were shot on what. I remember having to make up the print but didn't view it in the cinema.
 
Tim Hole said:
It was partially film and partially video...mostly video. F950 and F23 plus some elements were shot with EX1 and they used Arri 235/435 as well. Haven't seen the film so couldn't tell you what bits were shot on what. I remember having to make up the print but didn't view it in the cinema.
Click to expand...

I thought it was all F23? Its amazing though, seeing how it compares to the $4000 Red option. Jim even suggested scarlet would surpass the F23. And my eyes tell me it has. Something about PE (not just the 360 shutter), just looked poorly video-rendered. I just saw it again last night, so the anguish is fresh in the mind.
 
Tim Hole said:
It was partially film and partially video...mostly video. F950 and F23 plus some elements were shot with EX1 and they used Arri 235/435 as well. Haven't seen the film so couldn't tell you what bits were shot on what. I remember having to make up the print but didn't view it in the cinema.
Click to expand...

Oh, don't get me started on that one. There's a long article about it here... Apparently Mann thought film made it all look like a period piece, whereas digital was supposed to place the viewer right in there, without the idea of watching a piece of history.

Well, talk about wasted effort: the whole film looked like one of those DVD screenings when they can't get the film copy and project a DVD on a huge cinema screen. It looked awful, horrible. It looked like it was shot with a cellphone.

I really don't get it. :frown2::confused1:
 
Jannard said:
Public Enemies was not shot on RED. What are you talking about? Oh, I get it. All digital is the same. Right?

Ask them what District 9 was shot on...

Jim
Click to expand...

District 9 was an amazing achievement for a $17,500 camera, but I do not think District 9 is the best example of Red image quality. District 9 was color graded with a low color saturation bleach bypass crushed blacks look. I'm still waiting for a comedy shot on Red with high key lighting and high chroma. I know Red can look as good as any film stock because we do it at least every week shooting TV spots.
 
I mentioned District 9 in another post and deleted it because it was going off-topic, but since others brought it up....

District 9 worked great on RED. It stylistically was going for a "documentary video" style feel and it looks great on RED.

Mark, if you are waiting for a comedy shot on RED look at The Informant. From the trailer it looks visually as bad as Public Enemies. I suppose they wanted for the highlights to be blown out for whatever reason, but it is horrifying to look at. I guess you'd be getting into an argument that is less about the camera and more about the crew.
 
Well, a lot of hyperbole here and there -- shot with a cellphone!!! Geez, I don't like cellphones, but I'd like one that could shoot some of those scenes. I might light them differently. I might handle them in post differently.

Not that there is any point to me adding my voice really -- but Public Enemies is not a defining film for the capabilities of the F23 (and whatever else) -- just as District 9 -- is not (thank god, IMHO) a defining film for the cinematographic capabilities of Red 1 (at least not the ones I use #405-406).

Public Enemies had a lot of problems -- and MM chose the particular look of the film, which did not work for me and I doubt worked for a lot of people and in my opinion, did a deservice to the cast -- but what did more of a disservice was a very thin script --

It was style over substance, which granted covers probably half or more of commercial filmmaking these days -- but in this case the narrative was predictable, the script obvious and cliched -- and the style was, well, puzzling to say the least -- but I think this has little to do with the capabilities of the F23 or the very talented DP -- but more the eccentric (to be kind) and limited vision of a director who, well, became, I think a bit enamoured with his style for style's sake, ie self-indulgent. A style that says tome self-consciously artistic -- but lacking genuine artistry.

If you're a genius, you can make this work. If you're a talented but frankly commercial overhyped Hollywood director, it's going to show. (This may not be MM's fault, I don't know -- there are good people in lousy and corrupted systems that don't bring out the best in them everywhere -- politics, entertainment, banking, health care, and on down the line -- heck, even in poetry there is a kind of subtle corruption in who gets published in the "name brand" journals and the only reward there is obscurity and starvation...)

I am not unaware the general "audience" here is more visually and technically sophisticated than the general audience at a commercial film -- and the fact that somebody not versed in these obscure crafts would think Public Enemies looked "cheap" does not surprise me. Audiences identify with story and the faces that tell the story, ie the actors. And here, well, heck, half the time you couldn't really read the actor's faces very well.


But it would be a mistake to judge the F23 on Public Enemies -- just as it would be a mistake to define the Red via District 9 -- a film that is grotesquely overhyped in terms of its merits (again not its fault, that's what has to be done to sell) -- but at least its extremely chiaroscuro style (which frankly doesn't really do justice to the nuance that is possible with the Red) was appropriate to its narrative. (A bit derivative and overdrawn, almost camp, is my take -- perhaps intentional, but, well, that's okay. A cut above a real low budget horror film. And it's making good money which forgives all sins in my book as it looks good in Red's portfolio.

Okay, enough of my blah blah, I've indulged myself as well -- expressing an opinion despite it being about nothing particularly signficant. I hope I can go a year without another such lapse --

Onward.
 
Jannard said:
Public Enemies was not shot on RED. What are you talking about? Oh, I get it. All digital is the same. Right?

Ask them what District 9 was shot on...

Jim
Click to expand...

I new Public enemies wasnt Red as soon as I saw the preview, It looked bad, really bad. Red is beautiful, I worked for someone's short today and coudnt believe how filmic it looked, I colored it to look like Munich and everyone on set was blown away at what glorious old Red looked like ; )

And even before Red's beauty reigned, what about Ben buttons or Zodiac, both shot digitally (not Red) and both beautiful looking films.

Film is to be respected, But Red has finally made digital cinema affordable and incredibly beautiful.
 
Joe Carney said:
I hope someone from the Smithsonian is keeping an eye on things. Be cool for a couple of early Reds to end up in the American History museum.
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Funny cause I use REDs on the California State Indian Museum. I have two on order specifically for a VR or 3d walkthrough for a museum (Erik Espera wanted to so something in 3d or stereoscopic - got the rig, now waiting on the RED cameras).
 
I was totally disappointed with the look of Public Enemies (despite the fact I thought it was once of the most awful films I've seen in years!). But that being said, I'm pretty sure that was the same camera used on Benjamin Button, and maybe even Zodiac, so perhaps it simply takes a genius like Fincher to get a good look out of the Sony...
When I saw D-9 though, I saw if projected digitally, but was 100% certain it had been shot on film. Was absolutely blown away when I was doing some research and noticed it was RED. Incredible.
If I manage to get one of the jobs I've applied for, I'm grabbing myself a 2/3" Scarlet asap, and am gonna shoot my Western!
GY
 
Tax break The Netherlands

Tax break The Netherlands

Hi Jim
I read the post about the tax breaks incentive in Australia.
Same goes for the Netherlands for 2009/2010.
We can write back the purchase price in 2 years for this year & next year only.
So it would be great if I could place my order & pay for epic/scarlet already this year.

Good luck & I'm looking forward to the 30th.

Steve Walker NSC

www.stevewalker.nl
 
Behold - the internet in action, as another thread careers out of control into another entirely pointless film v. video discussion - oh wait, Steve got it back on track...

The signal to noise on this forum is still so high. It would be nice if, even just on recon, people could be dissuaded from hijacking...
 
Well technically was still off topic but hell of a lot closer than Public Enemies...

:)
 
Say that RedONE is just Video, because ther're digital is, for me, like to say than a cell phone and Canon 1D (or a Nikon D3) are just CMOS photographs...

It's crazy man! I could say you than film is as analogical as a VHS tape!

For me, 1D and D3 are REAL Digital Photo cameras, then, RED is a REAL Digital Cinema Camera, and REDCODE is a REAL Digital Cinema Footage.
 
Jeff Bruno said:
Mark, if you are waiting for a comedy shot on RED look at The Informant. From the trailer it looks visually as bad as Public Enemies. I suppose they wanted for the highlights to be blown out for whatever reason, but it is horrifying to look at. I guess you'd be getting into an argument that is less about the camera and more about the crew.
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree. I went to see the Informant expecting to see a brightly lit, vibrant picture... and was quite disappointed. Some scenes were really doing disservice to the "shot on Red" label. But it's less about the tool than what you do with t.
 
Return to original tread topic

Return to original tread topic

I am interested in keeping my R1 and to purchase some of the Scarlet or Epic cameras. As such R1 owner I am glad that our specific need is recognized and we shall not be punished for our, should I put it, overloyalty for R1 - i.e. as Jim said, RED will give us some other reword for our early confidence and support. I am looking forward to hear what is it expecting RED to not dissappoint us because RED never did it so far.

Milan Nikolic
R1 #1104
 
I didn't like the look of P Enemies either, but the look was based
on a well informed stylistic approach and not due to misunderstanding
technology. If Mann wanted the "film look", he would get the film look- bang on.
If you really wanted to, you could make just about any camera look like P E.
 
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