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RED at IBC: what a delusion

S

Stefano Sgrelli

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We went to IBC in Amsterdam especially to see the news on red ant to spoke about red. No stand, no people, nothing.
I understand red wants to be always exceptional but there is time to be excentric and time to be just regular.

We got a red with accessories. On our first production we had a problem with the 18-50 lens not focusing well, we send back to replace it. The red support was wonderfull and in just one week we got a new lens back but for that week we had to rent some lenses.
Then we had a problem with viewfinder showing only snow. Again we send back and we got a new one. Again a good service, but again we shoot for two weeks without viewfinder.
Now we are dealing with eSata errors between red and reddrive, we still have to find out what is going on.
Red have to decide if their products are just toys to play with or are production equipments on wich you can relay upon.

We still are very happy of the image quality and we think red is a wonderful camera but my suggestion is to spend some time to make actual products more robust together with the development of new ideas. Otherwise there is the risk that in one-two years some people will be tired of all these problems and will return to the hated big companies for products more stable and reliable.

Sorry for my english...

Stefano Sgrelli
Salt & Lemon Srl
Italy
 
"hated big companies" ????
You mean those big companies (Arri, Sony, Panasonic, etc) that always have up to date customer service, have their products fully tested before they come out with it...

I don't think that real professionals hate these companies. Yes, their price is much higher, but you get what you pay for.

We too have Red cameras (2 complete sets) + the related problems in hardware and software.
We also have a full line of Arri cameras (film) and if my boss could choose he would go for the Arri-digital option when it becomes available (soon....) Our clients will back that up too, because they know the quality of good brands.
 
Red are on the Assimilate stand and made that very clear in several posts. They decided not to get their own stand, I assume because the new hardware is not released and they don't want to propagate any vapor-ware discussions.

When the new hardware is ready, I'm sure they will make a big noise. Until then, pretty much everyone in the world knows where Red is up to.

Regarding the rest, make your own decision. Red has great to me. I have had issues along the way, but nothing I couldn't work around.

EDIT - I see this is your first post. If you are part of the Red community, the only place to be is on Red User.
 
I find it strange how all these stories about RED not being ready for prime time keep popping up - usually from first time posters and/or people not adhering to the real name policy.

I'm not saying that RED cameras are trouble-free. But no camera is. A 435 jams once in a while. Any film camera will get a hair at some points. A mag will get accidentally opened. A lab will screw up. A harddisk will fail.

There are way too many productions using RED cameras smoothly as we speak. Just saw District 9 yesterday.
 
as of right now there are ...Threads: 32,718, Posts: 466,937, Members: 25,083

of the 466,937 post i would safely say that 75% are good things about the red...

read up and you will find some very positive things about the cameras on these boards.

good luck
 
illergis said:
Now we are dealing with eSata errors between red and reddrive, we still have to find out what is going on.
Click to expand...

You have a faulty drive or cable or both. You need to contact support at red.com/support and get them back in for service.
 
Rob van Gelder said:
I don't think that real professionals hate these companies. Yes, their price is much higher, but you get what you pay for.
Click to expand...

I don't remember ever being able to trade in my three year old Sony for its full original value...

Cail Young said:
You have a faulty drive or cable or both. You need to contact support at red.com/support and get them back in for service.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but there was some sata_trans error that was occasionally affecting Build 20 - I think it's gone in 21 but you should still definitely call support:
Note: if your camera experienced “SATA_TRANS” error messages under Build 20 v20.1.3, please contact RED technical support for further assistance as some residual risk will exist for re-boots in record.
Click to expand...
 
My full name is at the end of the mail, no secrets here. I asked red people to change the login name because I was not able to change it myself but it has not been done up to now. Maybe I sent the request to the wrong address.

Referring to the "hated big companies", of course quality is quality no doubt about Arri and Sony just to say two names, but there has been also the habit to include in prices of professional equipments margins that in other markets just dont exist.

Referring to IBC I went to the Assimilate stand on sunday (the only day I was free) but there was nothing about red, people said there where gone.

As I said I still think red is a wonderfull camera, my post was meaning to give some ideas on actual limitations they should think about and make an even better product. Maybe we are very unluky and we got a number of problems above average...

Thanks for the suggestion on the eSata errors we will try with Build 21 now.

Stefano Sgrelli
Salt & Lemon Srl
Italy
 
Stefano,

I think the show appearances and hardware issues you are having are two separate issues.

Regarding appearances on the show floor, Apple has made the same decision: no more booths on the floor. No one questions Apple's dedication to the industry because they aren't at a show, and they still manage to ship faulty products every now and then.

Into my 3rd year having it and still no MMS on this iPhone...

Torrey
------------------------------
Torrey Loomis
President & CEO - Silverado Systems, Inc.
(916) 760-0032 •*FAX (916) 404-5258
torrey@silverado.cc
http://www.Silverado.cc

Silverado Twitter at*http://www.twitter.com/silveradosys
StudioBuilder blog at*http://silveradosys.blogspot.com
 
RED said before they left that they'd only be there friday and sat because they needed to be back in time for the Monday thing they had scheduled and that they couldn't actually miss the Monday thing...

So I guess its just miscommunication, simple as that for the idea that RED and Assimilate stand thing,

There are always bugs, its like a computer, the camera, your bound to have bugs, if your more then usual definitely contact support :)

I think they understand and are equally annoyed when people scream 'Vaporware' but they brush it off, thats why they didn't have a stand at IBC because showing just the physical non-working component will get another yelling of 'oh look, they were at IBC with a camera that doesn't even switch on to show what it can do, VAPORWARE!'... not exactly like that but you get the idea. TBH if I was RED, I've heard it a lot of times that I'm just dreaming and I think RED's heard it too many times that they are a scam so they've gone quite till they are ready and at that point...well hey...everyone should buy their tickets to get to the RED stall..but be ready for a queue ;)
 
RED at IBC

RED at IBC

And also remember that Jim and Jarred went to IBC because Ted was unable to travel to the show on this occasion.

So a shorter than intended presence for RED at IBC...
 
I'll just add that maybe, it is precisley because they are concentrating on their products, and trying to make them robust and capable of withstanding production conditions, that they decided not to have a stand at this year's IBC. A stand is costly, in money, time and people. Red has other priorities. And indeed, during IBC, they released a new Beta build, so those people at Red kept working while Jim and Jarred made a brief, but worthwhile, appearance.

Cheers,
Damien
 
And, just to clarify. From my understanding the SATA error is not caused by Build 20, rather it was identified by Build 20. It was always there only, under Build 20, it no longer crashes the camera and actually identifies the problem for eradication. I know it's a PITA, especially if, like me, you're a long, long way away from Forest Lake, but they are working their way through problems and offering great service to fix things as they come up. Yeah, in a perfect world there wouldn't be any problems and just maybe bigger price tags might mean better QC or more robust components but, for a great many of us, that would mean the difference between having a 4K camera with the odd bug and having no camera at all or shooting on inferior formats. I'm sure factoring the cost of hiring a lens for two weeks, the Red lens still worked out cheaper than a Cooke or an Arri.
 
Yes RED ONE has its issues (I have personally had NO issues with my camera), I have worked on plenty of sets that encounter problems.. but its usually not a big deal.
When doing a feature.. 1 camera wont due... you need to have backups available.. this goes with film cameras as well.

the hiccups that we are experiencing with the ONE should be resolved by EPIC/scarlet.
and I am confident that Red will be offering some top notch software and other products shortly after the new cameras are released.. Im sure sony and panasonic had issues during their first couple years. (minus the making you buy a new camera every 4 months)
 
Shane Betts said:
And, just to clarify. From my understanding the SATA error is not caused by Build 20, rather it was identified by Build 20. It was always there only, under Build 20, it no longer crashes the camera and actually identifies the problem for eradication.
Click to expand...

I cannot shout this loud enough from the treetops. Build 20 exposes problems that existed in Build 17 and hiding them in 21 is a bad idea.

And Torrey, that's not Apple, that's AT&T. I've got MMS just fine out here, thanks :)
 
man with that thread title... I guess one has to remind oneself that IBC was in AMSTERDAM afterall.

perhaps peeps need to put the pipe down now?... out here in OR, our weed makes you mellow... this rant sounds like bad hashish?

WELL KNOW FACT #1: RED ONE was/is a BETA camera. From day one was never promoted as more than that. Yet dozens and dozens of successful films have been shot on it... go figure.

WELL KNOW FACT 2: EPIC - SCARLETT are delayed because they dont want to release another beta camera. click on JANNARD and read his threads. Its all there.

I suggest you spend some quality time on these boards, and you will find a vast majority of the community working PROactively to help identify issues in a constructive
and positive manner.

and RED listens, (more patiently than I ever would... ) but I also hope you understand that thread headers like this, are not going to help your cause...

what's the cliche'?

"you catch more bees with honey than you do with vinegar." :wink:
 
Sorry to hear you missed out at IBC. I didnt go, but I do remember specific discussions
here on REDuser of when and where the RED guys would be.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34790
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34841

In terms of service, we're over 8000 miles away:

certain things take time to ship over and receive back, and being 11 hours behind means only one email back-or-forth a day,
but the team in CA are nothing but helpful and efficient. In the most part, we've had faster turnarounds from RED in the states,
than our Panasonic dealer 10 minutes down the road.

illergis said:
Red have to decide if their products are just toys to play with or are production equipments on wich you can relay upon.
Click to expand...
........Dude

http://www.red.com/shot_on_red/

No offense.
 
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