5D2 vs. Scarlet...Size Wise

[Andrew Walker]

Here are some side by sides I shot of my 5D2 and the Scarlet mockup at the Local 695 Red Event. They are pretty close in size except the RPP on the Scarlet was way bigger than my 35mm Zeiss ZF.

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

Very cool.

 

[Justin O'Neill]

Wow, very cool to see this comparison. Thanks Andrew.

 

[Vince Doran]

If you removed the battery pack from the 5D and add a view finder to the scarlet, I would say the scarlet is 3 times bigger

 

[Imran Farouk]

Its still relatively small though for the power it carries in it...

 

[DaveT]

If not a viewfinder, then a screen is going to make the Scarlet a lot bigger too.
Also the Scarlet has no control surface bolted to it.

That said, this is one of the most interesting posts I've seen on the new Red gear in months.

 

[Vince Doran]

Add a smaller size lens (as in physical size) and your looking at 4x bigger, think of us underwater shooters that want small camera housings

 

[Andrew Walker]

Red is coming out with a smaller viewfinder to put on the Epic and Scarlet models. Plus a smaller EVF that will be kind of like the eye piece on the 5D2, except it will be the direct view of what the sensor sees...not a mirror in front of the chip.

 

[Vince Doran]

"They are pretty close in size" maybe a visit to the optometrist might help?

 

[Imran Farouk]

smaller viewfinder?Surely though when shooting at such high quality or taking high quality stills you'd want a bigger one instead of smaller...fair enough it won't be AS compact as the 5D2 but at least you can see better...

 

[A. Bastaki]

scarlet looks so ugly and bulky.. it looks like a plastic silver toy.

 

[Milan Nikolic]

No, Scarlet does not look ugly but powerful and big - with additional: input/output unit, battery unit, CF unit, remote, etc. I am looking forward !!!

 

[joakim_hansson]

I don´t see the market for the stills capability of the camera, with that lens at least. It´s going tobe tremendously front heavy.
I´ve been working with the Canon 1Dsmk2 & 1Dsmk3 for years now and both of them are in the heaviest league wit a 85/1.2 or 24-70 Canon lens attached.
The Canons are weighing in at around 2-2,5 kilos with those lenses. Sure stability is gained from it, but add another 1,5-2 kilos on top of that for a total of 3,5-4,5 kilos. It´s not going to be possible to use it professionally in the long run because of the weight.

So I don´t think a Scarlet with RED lenses is a good combination ergonomically, but with Nikon or Canon lenses for instance there´s another story I guess.
I do not think that RED will have the same impact on the stills market as they have had on the market for filmcameras. The lack of an optical viewfinder is a big minus for instance. The possibility of moving images is of course a plus, but configured as on the photos in this thread the camera won´t be of much use as a filmcamera, focus gears, mattebox etc will make it even heavier and a shouldermount probably has to be added - with all that and a RPP on it I think it´s way too bulky both for journalists and editorial, fashion and so on.

I think it´s a danger to compare it to a 5Dmk2 - the cameras play in totally different leagues in all aspects.

For my own part I can´t wait for the Epic to be released, but I would never dream of replacing the 1DSmk3 for stills, not until Canon releases 1dsmk4 at least...

Just some thoughts.

 

[Stephen Gentle]

scarlet looks so ugly and bulky.. it looks like a plastic silver toy.

Production Scarlets are going to look way cooler than it does here - it'll be anodised black, and it also looks a lot cooler with the redmote on the back (which might be part of the standard kit).

 

[David Rasberry]

The Canons are weighing in at around 2-2,5 kilos with those lenses. Sure stability is gained from it, but add another 1,5-2 kilos on top of that for a total of 3,5-4,5 kilos. It´s not going to be possible to use it professionally in the long run because of the weight.

I expect a fully configured 2/3" Scarlet with a Cooke 9-50 and accessories will weigh in the 4-5 kilo range. Comfortable efficient ergonomics for a 5 kilo camera are very different than what works for a 2 kilo camera.
Suitable ergonomics for a motion camera are different than what works well for a still camera too. The processing and power requirements for high speed raw motion add significantly to system weight, as does the robust construction.

 

[joakim_hansson]

I expect a fully configured 2/3" Scarlet with a Cooke 9-50 and accessories will weigh in the 4-5 kilo range. Comfortable efficient ergonomics for a 5 kilo camera are very different than what works for a 2 kilo camera.
Suitable ergonomics for a motion camera are different than what works well for a still camera too. The processing and power requirements for high speed raw motion add significantly to system weight, as does the robust construction.

Yes of course, but I think marketing it as an option as a still camera too might not be as succesful as many think, weight is an important factor when choosing a worktool.
Many for instance got really happy when the 1st version of 5D came out a few years ago as an alternative to the heavier 1Dsmk2s, despite the lesser build quality in the 5d 1st gen. The reason for that was weight and size.

Robust construction doesn´t necessary add a lot of weight, the Canons for instance are made of a very light and sturdy metal alloy.

Anyway I´m really looking forward to these new products from RED, but I doubt that they will be a a serious contender in the stills market due to size and weight, maybe the stills capabilities should be toned down a bit in marketing or people might get the wrong impression of the product to start with. I mean how many markets the 5Dmk2 as a serious filmcamera?
-Not many, because it isn´t a serious alternative although it has the capability to capture short videoclips.

 

[Jonathan Cooper]

Owning a 5d mark II myself I wonder what the weight difference will be with a smaller lens

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Yes of course, but I think marketing it as an option as a still camera too might not be as succesful as many think, weight is an important factor when choosing a worktool.
Many for instance got really happy when the 1st version of 5D came out a few years ago as an alternative to the heavier 1Dsmk2s, despite the lesser build quality in the 5d 1st gen. The reason for that was weight and size.

Robust construction doesn´t necessary add a lot of weight, the Canons for instance are made of a very light and sturdy metal alloy.

Anyway I´m really looking forward to these new products from RED, but I doubt that they will be a a serious contender in the stills market due to size and weight, maybe the stills capabilities should be toned down a bit in marketing or people might get the wrong impression of the product to start with. I mean how many markets the 5Dmk2 as a serious filmcamera?
-Not many, because it isn´t a serious alternative although it has the capability to capture short videoclips.

Joakim, interesting points. For sure, some photographers will not move to the Scarlet for a variety of reasons not the least of which is comfort level and perhaps some loyalty to the brand of their choice. However, I wouldn't count it out as a serious contender in the stills market. Just look at the recent activity of stills photographers using RED One. The ability to shoot 24 frames per second, have cinematic quality video at your disposal for those times when moving pictures might be the way to go.

The one thing to keep in mind is Jim is pretty active photographer himself. So I'm sure ergonomics will play a factor in his approval of the design.

 

[Andrew Walker]

The heaviest part of the Scarlet setup was the lens. If you took it off it was very light. Of course it was just an empty Scarlet mockup body. So its kind of hard to say what it will feel like when the dust settles. Still I just wanted to show that they are very close to the same size. I really like the size of the 5D2 and I think that for certain things filming with it looks much easier then taking out a larger camera. So if the Scarlet/Epic can be about the same size and be powered from the grip on the side then that to me kills the 5D2 for its portable video function.

Personally I think the video function on the 5D2 is on par with the HVX with a 35mm adaptor. The quality that the Red One delivers blows it out of the water. So when Red releases the Epic/Scarlet I'm sure people will be jumping onto the Red side from Canon. But we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Rick Darge]

BTW, anyone know when the Scarlet/Epics are being released? I remember a few months back Jarred said it would be end of August