Advice needed - Best interim cam

[Jason Badham]

Okay, so I am looking to sell off my DVX100A and upgrade to a tapeless HD camera and I am looking for some advice regarding the best choice. It looks as though Scarlet is quite a ways off (2010?) and I just can't wait that long. I handle primarily DVD production, corporate videos some TV spots and have several gigs coming up that I would really like to get better images for (as opposed to the DVX). Knowing that this will be something I will be selling off in the future to get a Scarlet, does anyone have any advice as to what camera would be the best for the interim?

I like the EX's but don't want to have to invest a lot into something I will be selling later (in terms of the tapeless media). Canon's offerings don't seem interesting at all since I don't think they have a tapeless camera. Panasonic's 150 looks nice, but am worried that it might be too 'prosumer' for my clients (concerned about the format). The 170 seems the logical upgrade choice - but the P2 workflow seems to be too much investment for something I will be selling off down the line.

I would imagine that I'm not the only one in this predicament, and am curious to know what others are planning. Any advice is greatly appreciated, thanks in advance!

 

[Gerald Menclik]

if you're editing in FCP probably the JVC HM100 would be very costeffective and tapeless and HD ......

 

[Gerald Menclik]

brrrrr ... dslr???????????????? you'll need a lot of horsepower editing avchd and you will be disapointed for sure ...................

 

[Jason Badham]

Thanks Guys!

I am editing in FCS2 (soon 3) on a MacPro 2.66 w/ 11g RAM. I am setting up a 3T RAID in my open bays in anticipation of the additional space I'll need to edit and render larger files.

I saw the HM100, and saw that the bitstream was 35 (as opposed to Panny's 24mbs). I also didn't realize that it had 2 XLR's, that's really cool.

I will look into that more, that might be the one for me... thanks!

 

[Jason Badham]

DSLR? 5dII or GH1, maybe even the d300s.

It depends on what your clients want (action, fast pans etc.... forget DSLRs, for now) and also which Scarlett you are getting? Maybe you are thinking of the S35 and using a nikon/canon adapter to use nikon/canon glass... in which case a d300s/5dII might be a good stop gap, as the glass and accessories will fit with your Scarlett.

We need more info.

Sorry, I will be looking at either the S35 or possibly the 2/3" interchangeable, depending on my budget when the camera comes out (since I also don't know what it will cost to get a total setup - bat's, I/O, monitor etc.)

I like the 5dII, but it lacks XLR inputs as it seems most of the DSLR's do (which I understand completely since they are mainly still cameras).

 

[Michael Hastings]

Jason:

A good friend of mine that has the EX1 just bought the JVC GY-HM100 as a second camera and for an underwater housing and has been VERY impressed with the video quality and how it matches up when edited (in FCS) with the EX. It is extremely compact (you can easily take that whole xlr/mic section off) yet JVC seems to have pulled out all the stops as far as features/picture quality.

Professional format recording with selectable data rates up to 35Mbps
Native Final Cut Pro format
Fastest HD shoot to edit workflow. Edit immediately without conversion or transcoding
Native .MP4 (XDCAM-EX™) format
Compatible with most professional non-linear editing systems
Records to dual SDHC memory cards (no moving parts in recording system)
Full HD recording (selectable)
1920 x 1080 (1080p24/25/30, 1080i)
1280 x 720P (p60/50/30/25/24)
Fujinon HD lens with manual or auto modes
Extensive image customization modes (gamma, matrix, knee, detail, etc.)
Uncompressed LPCM audio (2ch) recording
Manual level controls with audio meter
XLR inputs with phantom power

 

[Noah Kadner]

I like the Panasonic HMC150- great imagery and price and the media is dirt cheap compared to SxS or P2- based cameras. It's like the HVX200's lesser known but equally talented little brother. Pair that with say a Nikon D90 or a 5D Mark II and you can get a lot of amazing looking footage.

Noah

 

[Rick Presas]

I like the Panasonic HMC150- great imagery and price and the media is dirt cheap compared to SxS or P2- based cameras. It's like the HVX200's lesser known but equally talented little brother. Pair that with say a Nikon D90 or a 5D Mark II and you can get a lot of amazing looking footage.

I agree with this. I've looked at footage from an HPX and an HMC, both really look great. Very very much like an HVX200. If you're moving up from a DVX and want a similar feel/size then the HMC is really for you. I would ONLY (EVER) reccomend an HPX over it if you want to overcrank or undercrank at any point. But if you dont see yourself needing slo-mo, then HMC is much cheaper and very similar in picture quality.

Outside of the Panasonic triplets, have you considered a Sony Z7u?

If you're concerned about clients perception, i would reccomend against a DSLR, even though they may gove you a shallower DOF. A client will see that and still just see a "still camera." Not to mention that you'd have to do your audio seperately.

 

[Gerald Menclik]

I like the Panasonic HMC150- great imagery and price and the media is dirt cheap compared to SxS or P2- based cameras. It's like the HVX200's lesser known but equally talented little brother. Pair that with say a Nikon D90 or a 5D Mark II and you can get a lot of amazing looking footage.

Noah

ALthough it looks like a nice cam making good pictures I personally dislike the AVCHD codec and prefer the HM100 with its "FCP" ready quicktime .... a no-glitch importer into FCP and none of the AVCHD :banghead: in the editing process ...

 

[Paul Shapiro]

I'm in the same boat as you, Jason, and have (sort of reluctantly) ordered the JVC HM-100 as a fill-in B-cam until Scarlet arrives. I'll have to do without timelapse etc, which is a pain, but the quality and workflow of this little cam make it all the more compelling. Also, the HM-100 is inexpensive enough to sell-on next year without the pain of buying, then ditching, a bunch of EX-1/3 gear. The clients will just have to live with the small form factor — I mean, does anyone complain about smaller and better cell phones these days? I, meanwhile, will have to accommodate for its fixed lens and make sure everything is lit correctly for the 1/4-inch sensors.

Of course, come 2010, I'll then have to get a go-anywhere fixed lens Scarlet as a new B-cam for the S35!

 

[Jason Badham]

Thank you guys!

I really appreciate all of the feedback! My gut feeling right now seems to be to either rent an EX1 or buy the JVC. The only thing that does tear me against the JVC is the smaller chips with lower DOF (going from my current 1/3").

The reason I prefer owning is the fact that you can really get to learn a camera in and out and you don't have to worry about having to "crash-course" a new system on both the shooting and editing side.

Thank you all again - this has been extremely helpful!

 

[Bryce O]

All I can say is that after working with a 5d this summer (even with the few problems/workaround it has) is that small sensors make me sick... I don't think I can ever go back to something under 2/3".

 

[Jason Badham]

All I can say is that after working with a 5d this summer (even with the few problems/workaround it has) is that small sensors make me sick... I don't think I can ever go back to something under 2/3".

That looks really intriguing... I was originally concerned about audio, but it seems that there are work arounds for XLR inputs... I use a couple of Sennheiser G2 systems but rarely use both at the same time and I can use the 1/8" out jack instead of the XLR. The only catches I see with that is editing and storage (what will it take to handle a half day of shooting card-wise) and then will transcoding the footage afterward be just as long as capturing tape as I am currently doing...

 

[Jason Badham]

All I can say is that after working with a 5d this summer (even with the few problems/workaround it has) is that small sensors make me sick... I don't think I can ever go back to something under 2/3".

Hey Bryce,

I have a couple of questions for you about the 5D.

First, do you think it would be a workable cam to shoot instructional videos? I have a fairly long project I am working on now that is mainly scheduled for DVD distribution. Each video is about 30-50 minutes and each shoot is about 2-3 days. Since it's primarily one instructor, I really only need 1 audio input at a time. Would the 12 min clip length kill me in post? Is editing this footage a pain in FCS?

The reason I am kind of slanting this way, is that I was recently planning on upgrading my current still camera, and I already have 5 canon lenses that I really like... It looks very tempting.

Any advice on this is really appreciated.. thanks!

 

[Aaron Newsome]

I think everyone should try working with AVCHD footage before committing to it. I personally think H.264 is a fine and decent delivery format, but as an acquisition format, as an editing format, good grief.

I use FCP, and while FCP *can* actually edit H.264 video, you wouldn't want to (unless you love the "rendering" popup). Plus, when using my AVCHD camera with FCP, it insists on converting it to ProRes-422. This is fine, I have no problem with the ProRes codec. The problem is that all my computers are VERY slow (although they were top of the line not long ago). Converting AVCHD to ProRes takes a ridiculously long time on my 2.0ghz MBP.

I shot a few "live events" with a 3 cam setup. Two HDV cams, one on a tripod and one handheld. The C cam was a AVCHD cam. The event was SIX HOURS LONG. The 6 hours of HDV footage laid into FCP just fine but the AVCHD was converted to ProRes.

If I told you how long a 2.0Ghz MBP takes to convert 6 hours of AVCHD, you would not even believe me.

 

[Stefan Christou]

I absolutely agree. The JVC is a miracle in terms of workflow, and if you want shallow depth of field get an adapter. lol

AVCHD is a total b*****d to work with, also when it's in Prores it's about ten time the size as what you shot, so 16GB is 160GB 32GB is 320GB.

Go JVC you wont regret it, and then you can use it as a B-cam for Scarlet, and be able to do it without any headaches. If you were using Avid I'd say go with a Panasonic P2 camera, because P2 is native to Avid MC. In you line of work it's all about workflow.

 

[Jörgen Persson]

I absolutely agree. The JVC is a miracle in terms of workflow, and if you want shallow depth of field get an adapter. lol

AVCHD is a total b*****d to work with, also when it's in Prores it's about ten time the size as what you shot, so 16GB is 160GB 32GB is 320GB.

Go JVC you wont regret it, and then you can use it as a B-cam for Scarlet, and be able to do it without any headaches. If you were using Avid I'd say go with a Panasonic P2 camera, because P2 is native to Avid MC. In you line of work it's all about workflow.

The JVC files are native in Avid if you record as XDCAM EX .mp4. No need for transcoding. You will need the very latest version of Avid Media Composer though (3.5.4).

I am looking at getting the HM100 for some upcoming series of videos for the web and I like the excellent workflow options for Avid and FCP.
No transcoding or rewrapping nonsense for either NLE platform. Smart move by JVC.

 

[Gerald Menclik]

btw I'm thinking of buying one myself ..... just wasn't sure wether HM100 or HM700 but I think the HM100 would be the better decision to have it as B-cam to a 2/3 fixed ....

 

[Michael Hastings]

Hey Bryce,

I have a couple of questions for you about the 5D.


Any advice on this is really appreciated.. thanks!

If you are considering a 5d, consider the Rebel T1i - for less than $800 you get an APS-C sensor (same as S35/Redone) 30 fps 720p video (also 20FPS 1080p) works with all of your lenses and almost no monetary downside whenever the next generation Canon DSLR with better video or the Scarlet/Epic comes out.

 

[Jason Badham]

If you are considering a 5d, consider the Rebel T1i - for less than $800 you get an APS-C sensor (same as S35/Redone) 30 fps 720p video (also 20FPS 1080p) works with all of your lenses and almost no monetary downside whenever the next generation Canon DSLR with better video or the Scarlet/Epic comes out.

Thanks Michael!

That looks really good too, but it looks to have no audio input which I would definitely need. My only reservation about the DSLR's is the H.264 format and whether that will negate the time savings of shooting tapeless - if you have to transcode your footage to edit in FCP, it looks like that would take longer than ingesting tape on an hour-for-hour basis...