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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

How much do you have saved so far?

Some people are good self teachers and some aren't. Having some gear to experiment with as well as trying to make contacts in the pro world and working any crew positions you come across can go a long way toward replacing school if you are a good self teacher.
Sometimes though, you don't know what you don't know and the self teaching approach will leave gaps. Short term professional workshops can help fill in the blanks, especially for technical skills. Noone can really teach you to be an artist anyway.
 
Jonathan L. Bowen said:
Haha, that's why I quit film school, way too much money for an industry that cannot guarantee you any decent job out of school. Easier to learn on your own and cheaper. I lost about $9K to film school before I quit and got the rest back, which I spent on my reel and on equipment. It was definitely worth it.
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Smart, very smart
 
Yes

Yes

Well, actually that's a really good point David -- I got a lot out of the 8 weeks I spent in film school. It was an 8 week intensive program, that was term 1, and we had about 12 hours of class per day, sometimes class on Saturday, a bit of everything during this rotation. It not only taught me a lot about film and how a set works, but it also taught me a lot about what I DIDN'T yet know, which was really valuable in pursuing the rest of the knowledge I needed. A lot of times it's not about knowing everything right off the bat, but knowing what you don't know.

The film school I went to, LA Film School, was a one-year program, and about 27% of the class time was in the first 8 weeks. The rest of the time was stuff that I just felt I could do on my own. It was a lot about making your thesis film, which I felt that if I wanted to make a thesis film I could certainly do it on my own and with professional crew, haha.
 
It looks like we're dealing with the same ideals and concepts that led people to wanting to buy the scarlet in the first place. Making awesome films as inexpensively as possible.

I am student still in film school, but also working a summer internship at a major motion picture studio for a moderate salary (trying not to sound like a conceited douche bag, sorry if that did...) But with that history I think that the reason to stay in school is simply access.

If you can get access to the equipment cheaply then there is a reason to keep going. I have been able to work on four short films in the last year that all were shot on RED. One aspect to the price tag, simplicity and quality of the ONE is that schools are now able to have a nice camera for thesis projects. The other side of the coin is, if school costs an exorbitant amount of money, and in contrast the camera prices for new the new RED line series would be cheaper than spending time in an institution that it's hard to get access to equipment in, then going independent of that school and entering the "industry" is definitely a good decision, if you can manage to keep paying the bills and find time to make those films that will "change the world."

Bottom line - for professionals and students alike the Scarlet series will really take high quality film production to an unprecedented low cost.
 
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Aaron Newsome said:
I talked to a tech at grass valley. I told him I just got the camera and he pretty much convinced me that I should send the camera to grass valley and they will completely go through it. They calibrate things, turn knobs inside the camera I presume and basically insure that everything works. They have dual link HD-SDI hookups, scopes, etc. Once they say it's good, I'll say it's good and shoot with confidence. If no parts are needed, this will cost less than $1,000. I just add it to the cost of the camera and it's still a solid deal.
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Just got the call from Grass Valley. The cost of going through the camera was only $1,200 plus they fixed up a few things and verified all the levels, checked dual SDI 4:4:4 out, single link SDI, all the different modes, HDStream, Filmstream, etc. Verified the software and firmware are all up to date and even gave me a detailed history of the camera and confirmed that nothing major has ever been wrong with the camera. A camerafax if you will, like carfax. They also told me the camera was originally purchased by Dalsa Digital Cinema in LA. I don't think they're around anymore though.

I mean, I know the Dalsa camera is still around and still very nice. I was talking about this:

http://www.digitalcinemareport.com/Arri-Dalsa-digital-cinema-cameras-technology
 
Hmm

Hmm

Yeah the school I went to, uhh, no, it wasn't at all like that. They had no plans to buy REDs even, I don't know if they have them now, and it was nearly impossible to get an XL2 even -- I bought one for that reason. I didn't want to screw around with their equipment rentals so I bought everything I wanted and needed, and it was better than what the school could provide anyway. Equipment was the last reason to be part of school -- I already had all of the equipment. When I left, I took my money and bought even more.

They may have thought they had impressive equipment but it's easy enough to beat what they have. They only have Avid-based computers, which is of no use to most people as Avid sucks balls, and more than that, you can't tell me you turn out editing majors but they never learn either Premiere or Final Cut. Nobody is going to hire you if you don't know more than just that. You better at least know a lot of CS4 applications and Final Cut, because in the indie world, where you're likely to start, we don't take kindly to Avid.

Everyone should take a page out of the Leverage book -- shot on the RED One, edited on Final Cut. If you have the budget, and you're not doing that, you score pretty big idiot points with me. That's the only way you should be doing work if you know what you're doing. Avid is for people who are in retirement communities and members of AARP. People who remember World War II first hand. It's a lousy editing system for old people who don't know better and like overspending on hardware that's not as fast as an 8-Core Mac and not as reliable.
 
Jonathan L. Bowen said:
Avid is for people who are in retirement communities and members of AARP. People who remember World War II first hand. It's a lousy editing system for old people who don't know better and like overspending on hardware that's not as fast as an 8-Core Mac and not as reliable.
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Careful Jonathan, your ignorance is showing.

Michael
 
Michael, you could get away with that two years ago when I posted here, and I was really new. Now, your ignorance is showing by even saying that.

I know what I'm doing, I know what I'm talking about, and I have my preferences. I have every right to say that I think 35mm film and Avid are both dead in the water. Does that mean nobody uses them in the pro world? No, of course not. They both still dominate, even. But that doesn't mean I have to use them. I'm a producer, I know more about this kind of crap than any DP here, because I see it on the budgetary scale not just looking at camera specs. The fact is you shouldn't be shooting with film when you have a 4K camera available that is simply better than what you're going to get with film AND cheaper.

And don't even get me started on Avid, only a TOTAL MORON would sit around preaching about the benefits of Avid. I won't tolerate that or get into any discussions about it. The word Avid even enrages me. That is EVERYTHING a company shouldn't be. Slow to update, pathetic software support, and even worse, people actually use PCs to run Avid, are you kidding me?

It doesn't matter what MOST people use, it matters what is the best. Most people still use PCs, and PCs are inferior computers. If you use a PC and call yourself a serious computer user, you are ignorant. That's the end of that argument. Macs are faster, superior computers with a better OS, and anyone who knows the first thing about computers knows that. They have better security, they have better support, they function better, they are faster to update.

There are preferences -- using 35mm or RED is a preference. I can respect someone who wants to shoot film, because it is an aesthetic preference and there are benefits.

I cannot respect anyone who thinks that using a PC instead of a Mac is a good idea. Those people are what we call ignorant, as you would say. They don't understand the first thing about computing or about quality.

So don't sit here and act holier than thou, I know what I'm talking about -- the question is do YOU?! And the answer is no Mr. I-have-six-posts-so-I-know-all.
 
I knew I recognized that voice somewhere.....

:idea:

- it's JonathanLB!!! :emote_happyhappy:

:emote_popcorn:

Great to see you back Jonathan - your posts often lead to fun on reduser!

:cheers2:

Cam
 
Jonathan L. Bowen said:
And don't even get me started on Avid, only a TOTAL MORON would sit around preaching about the benefits of Avid. I won't tolerate that or get into any discussions about it. The word Avid even enrages me. That is EVERYTHING a company shouldn't be. Slow to update, pathetic software support, and even worse, people actually use PCs to run Avid, are you kidding me?

It doesn't matter what MOST people use, it matters what is the best. Most people still use PCs, and PCs are inferior computers. If you use a PC and call yourself a serious computer user, you are ignorant. That's the end of that argument. Macs are faster, superior computers with a better OS, and anyone who knows the first thing about computers knows that. They have better security, they have better support, they function better, they are faster to update...
I cannot respect anyone who thinks that using a PC instead of a Mac is a good idea. Those people are what we call ignorant, as you would say. They don't understand the first thing about computing or about quality.

So don't sit here and act holier than thou, I know what I'm talking about -- the question is do YOU?! And the answer is no Mr. I-have-six-posts-so-I-know-all.
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These are all called preferences. Film, Red, Macs, PC...they're all tools. Use what gets the job done. Macs are PCs, PCs are PCs. Same parts, different OS. The preference is the OS you want to use.

Editing software--preference. Because you don't care for one doesn't mean it's not any good (if you have legitimate questions about Avid's support, update cycles, and cross-platform support PM me--I'll answer them as best I can). I don't care for Edius, but it's a perfectly capable editor (and much more advanced, in some aspects, than Avid/FCP/Premiere).
If PCs shouldn't be used, write to Boxx Technologies so they can close up shop. Apparently they haven't gotten the memo. And tell Pixar so they can shut down their render farms (linux based, I believe).

If Avid is so bad, write to Apple and tell them to stop incorporating Avid features that people desperately want. I'll write to Avid and tell them to stop incorporating FCP features I'd like. They're a dead company after all, aren't they? :-) Whether you like Avid or not, they're a major player in the NLE market and the more competition we have the better all the programs get. There's a reason people still use Avid, whether you agree (or understand) why.

There's a difference between having a personal preference for a tool versus stating your opinion as fact. I'm very interested in Scarlet, hence by limited participation on Reduser (no point in posting that much on a product that isn't on the market yet), but it may not be the best tool for my work. Time will tell when it's released. In the meantime, just consider that some people prefer to use different equipment than you do, and that's ok. It doesn't make them wrong, and it doesn't make you right. It just means we're different. And that's not so bad, is it?

Michael.

PS. I do use Avid on a PC, and not one of my clients can tell that it wasn't done on FCP. Isn't that the point? Use the tool that gets the job done so you can get paid and your clients are happy? Why such allegiance to a brand?
 
Why would AVID need to update regularly? They're already light years ahead of Premiere and FCP.

Another fact: Very little important computing happens on a Mac. I think you'd actually find that the vast majority of really high end work happens on linux (PC) except for editing.

But that's ok because I understand it's hard to learn how to use Avid, not everybody has the chops get past the learning curve. :)
 
Yannick Hagman said:
After I ordered the Mark II for still photography.
$0.- :)

Will rent it. I'm more interested into that shoulder-rig actually. Cameras that shot video are available everywhere in a year. There is no reason for 3k for youtube or vimeo.
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Sorry but ... why u dont use IPHONE (.h264) for this...u dont need mkII as well
 
I've only been able to save in a couple of weeks about $2600.. bust.... i'm planning on getting the 2/3 cinema no fixed lense.. how much do you think it'll be with a full body?
 
Hehe, nice one nearly three years of waiting to coplete that sentese. BTW very happy to see my original $1330 being a lot more now.
 
Daniel Miranda said:
I've only been able to save in a couple of weeks about $2600.. bust.... i'm planning on getting the 2/3 cinema no fixed lense.. how much do you think it'll be with a full body?
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I thought they scrapped the non-fixed one...

I'm definitely getting the fixed scarlet... problem is I don't know what mark to save for! I've heard $6000, but I've also heard to get more for more accessories... I don't know what you get for the $6000... BAH it's so confusing. I'm very close to the $6k mark though. Probably have enough by the time it ships... question is will I still have enough for food and shelter. :(
 
I had nearly 5 K saved when this thread was in '09. Now I have around 14K, I will have around 20K when I get back to the states in July. However, I have other projects pending and with the delays, I can wait for the camera upgrade. The pilot (on a local cable channel) I have planned was written around not having a good camera anyways. I would have liked to shoot it with a RED, but it is not required. (Even if I did shoot with RED, I would have to make it look like a home made anyways.)
 
Business loan for me. I aint't shooting for cinema but it sure as hell won't be just for the web. This is going to make my corporate clients understand why they spend dollars to make in house and promotional videos. Throw in some super dooper shorts, and this machine will pay itself off in no time.

I have always understood that the scarlet can't be limited to "that cool video I just posted on youtube". It is as close to a professional tool as my small business requires it and way above the capability of any DSLR on the market.
 
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