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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

hahah some sound guys...

Zakaree Sandberg

Zakaree Sandberg

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just delt with a "professional sound guy"
who claims to have never heard about needing to jam sync a camera with timecode from his clock source..

says that your better off just matching up the sticks in post vs. using timecode..
geeeezzzzz
 
Scripty wants TC out to make log notes and the Editor wants matching TC in Sound and Picture... wtf? Is this not a standard? I'm extremely critical about TC on set.
 
Chris M. said:
Lock-it boxes make the world go round....
Click to expand...

I can go with or without lockit boxes.. of course id like to not have to re-jam everytime i power down and up again..
but its easy enough.. as long as i keep the 5 pin lemo cable attached to the smart slate.. I can quickly re-jam and it will hold..


now heres a question.... whos responsibility is it to have the 5-pin timecode lemo cable? the camera owner? or the sound guy?

cuz a lot of sound guys ive talked too.. dont have it and claim it should be with camera.
 
Should come with the Slate, If you ARE recording sound w/ Sync Smart Slate then it should be sound guys responsibility. But I have everything in case I'm needed to send TC out of the Red, Scripty's ask for it all the time. Its camera gear that time, but it makes sense if the sound guy has to adapt his gear to the Camera system, Its a little hard to say one way or the other. But I always say it should come with the Slate, If its the sound guy's slate it should have necessary cables.

I'm obviously not the only person to realize this but.. Some have made a Breakaway cable that includes 2 mini xlr channels, Headphone, Lemo TC + Out, + BNC(why not?) This cable is maybe $250, You absolutely need this for Music Videos that Sound controls Playback and TC. For every Take, and shots where playback from sound was used, TC starts wherever the song does.. And this would definitely be a Sound Cable.
 
My perspective as a soundie... Lemo cables are audio department responsibility. I don't think it is reasonable to have cables for every camera under the sun, but Lemo is standard and sound department should have the reasonable expectation to provide such cables.
 
Zakaree Sandberg said:
just delt with a "professional sound guy"
who claims to have never heard about needing to jam sync a camera with timecode from his clock source..

says that your better off just matching up the sticks in post vs. using timecode..
geeeezzzzz
Click to expand...



And You're probably right...but wait a second. You are talking about Timecode & Clock. Do you realize Word Clock & Timecode are two different animals? Anyways... Next time you're looking for a Production Sound Mixer please gimme a call, I'll be more than happy to point you on the right direction. BTW, I do own all necessary cables, lockit boxes and anything you can think of to make your project run smoothly.
Happy Filming,
SS

(818) 389-1764
 
Zakaree Sandberg said:
just delt with a "professional sound guy"
who claims to have never heard about needing to jam sync a camera with timecode from his clock source..

says that your better off just matching up the sticks in post vs. using timecode..
geeeezzzzz
Click to expand...

When someone says 'I'm professional", usually I don't believe it.
 
Kaku Ito said:
When someone says 'I'm professional", usually I don't believe it.
Click to expand...

Technically Professional is a very loose term. Simply put you are "professional" if you're paid for what you do. ( http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/professional )
In that sense I am anti professional. :p I just ask what they've done and I can usually get a good sense.

Disclaimer: This is the view of a decidedly (unfortunately ) non-professional in any field.

-J.A. Brown
 
if you have not purchased a 5 pin to 5 pin lemo and a bnc to 5 pin lemo and a xlr to 5pin lemo for your camera, then you do not have a complete kit. it is your responsibility to have all the right cables to interface with standard film making equipment. more over, if you have one you should have two, as a backup...i do and you should to if you want to do professional jobs.

i also have mdr cables (run stop) for all 3 MDR's and p-tap to MDR power, as well as a microforce cable that allows the zoom motors to be powered off the cameras gpio ports and also allow for run stop from the microforce. these cables are not cheap, but they make the difference between doing the job and doing the job right.

dino
 
I carry TC lemos in my kit, but most of the jobs I have done the sound guy has one too. Not jamsyncing is no fun. Sorry Sandberg!
 
FYI, I'd say 90% plus of 'Hollywood' movies are shot without TC! None. No smart slate, just the clap. Even more so, the clap always works, and that's something one can't say about TC, especially the one from the RED.
So, the professional sound guy who get's the bad riff here, isn't so unprofessional as it seems. The question is always how editing is able or wants to deal with syncing up audio. But careful here too, as many 'editors' aren't really 'professional' and don't really know much about audio and sync. There are quite a lot of 'editors' out there that think using no TC is unprofessional ;-(
In my experience, btw, it's a lot faster to sync sound via clap than via TC. Try it out ;-)
Regarding the Lemo cables, they are one of the TC standards, and should always come with the slate.
 
Karl Lohninger said:
In my experience, btw, it's a lot faster to sync sound via clap than via TC. Try it out ;-)
Click to expand...

Indeed Premier Pro dose still not read TC out of soundfiles. AVID and FCP do this since a long time. Syncing via TC is a breeze in these two NLEs. You don't have even to bring the footag into the timeline. I would say syncing 100 shots in 5 minutes is no posing. Much faster than syncing with the good old slate.

----

I do many doc-style shoots with RedOne. I don't like slates. Psychologically slates are the same as "action". It does happen very often in my work that I don't want to give the talent the feel of "action" because many of them aren't trained actors and I don't want to scare them with film "rituals".

Snycing the RedOne to a Sounddevice is as easy as it gets. Switch on Jam sync, connect the camera (slave) to the Sounddevice and off you go. Build 20 is in this regard even quicker, just a second.

It's been always the duty of the sound department to provide appropriate equipment. Nevertheless Dino is right from his point of view: If you are a Red-Tech providing the camerasystem for high-level productions it's always great to have all impossible/unthinkable stuff with you. Keeping the production running, even if it's not your duty gives you valuable credits.

Hans
 
Hans von Sonntag said:
...100 shots in 5 minutes is no posing. Much faster than syncing with the good old slate.

It's probably what one is used to. I'm faster syncing to the audible as well as visible clap and it's more fun!

----

"..... "action" because many of them aren't trained actors and I don't want to scare them with film "rituals". "

Totally understood.

"Snycing the RedOne to a Sounddevice is as easy as it gets. Switch on Jam sync, connect the camera (slave) to the Sounddevice and off you go. Build 20 is in this regard even quicker, just a second."

But only if it works - and here's the problem, it doesn't ...or only sometimes. Red's Tc is really all over the place (seen again just last week with a latest build etc.). TC display in the lcd played all kind of tricks - that's just not fun.

Syncing via TC could be faster, but only if TC is dead on. If not, one has to slip/slide the files around and doing that ..... that takes time......;-)

"It's been always the duty of the sound department to provide appropriate equipment. "

He who bringeth the slate does also bring them cables.
Click to expand...
 
This Red Camera I've heard so much about does have some wonkiness about the timecode. For a while I was working with Varicams and such (keeps TC jam'd even when powered down!) and got spoiled. Now it's back to Reds. IMO a Lockit box helps much.

When I bring my slate to set I always bring a variety of TC cables. One such cable cost about $80 so it pays to be protective...
 
Most of digital cameras mid range like hvx don't have timecode input. You can't really sync them with slate. This is probably what he works with the most. Higher end digital cameras like Red or hvx500 or however it is called have time code crystal sync . He is not aware of that. A lot of sound guys just sync the recorder with time code and run 29.97
 
Red looses time code sync when powered down, sometimes it looses it even when powered so little chain has to be checked all the time. One DP told me Red has a firmware which keeps the TC locked all the time but I'm not aware of it.
 
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