Apple destroys MacBook Pro

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

True, the 17" doesn't seem as bulky as some other full-size laptops, but when you're taking it with you in a backpack or over the shoulder every day, there will be times you wish you could have something just a little smaller. The video applications point becomes less significant when you can hook the 15" up to a giant external display for desktop use.

Actually my experience with the 17inch powerbook has shown me that it's not the laptop itself thats the problem when moving around but rather the size of my laptop bag and the external HDDs + Camera that I was lugging around with it.
On the occasion that I only needed my powerbook and the AC adaptor things were fine.

I can still see how I could want a 15inch or even an air if I where the type to spent a lot of time writing scripts at some coffee shop.
Though if I were that type of person I might just get an Air and have a Mac Pro at home.

I like the suggestion above about Apple offering some other options besides the SD card slot. If Apple would give us an eSATA port instead of the ExpressCard port, that would be an acceptable compromise since I have an eSATA card in that slot 90% of the time.

I would prefer a second FW 800 slot actually, would be more in line with the needs of IOHD, FW 800 in FW 800 back out too an external disk, though they could probably have either of those and still keep the express card slot or SD slot whichever you prefer.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

13" and 15" MacBook Pros Have a Slower SATA Interface

1.) It appears nearly certain that the new 13" and 15" MacBook Pros are all reporting a SATA interface running at 1.5Gb and not the faster 3.0Gb rate that has been in pretty common use for the last few years. These new models have the Secure Digital (SD) slot and also appear to have redesigned motherboards.

2.) Those who are using standard hard disk drives will probably see no difference in performance. If that is you, you can stop reading now.

3.) Benchmarks on FAST solid-state drives (SSDs) are showing a decrease in RAW disk i/o transfer rates on these same systems (in comparison to the previous generation MacBook Pros and MacBooks).

4.) The largest differences in the benchmark results seem to be in large, sequential disk READS (one of the traditional strengths with SSDs).

5.) To the best of my knowledge, no one has done any test with REAL-WORLD operations to show that the user experience (i.e. "performance") will be decreased with the 1.5Gb SATA interface. That is to say that thus far we've only seen benchmarks done with RAW disk i/o benchmarking tools.

6.) No one really knows why this has been done and no one knows whether it can be fixed with a software/firmware update (it may or may not be able to be fixed).

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/06/14/13-and-15-macbook-pros-have-a-slower-sata-interface/

 

[Kholi Hicks]

This thread Rocks. Time to open ye eyes and see that there are computing options several times more efficient in cost and performance than Apple's Hardware... and thanks to the Intel move a good few actually run Leopard anyway.

THe only Macbook Pro that I considered was the 13.3 because of Mobility and Battery Life. The 8GB DDR3 Limit is nice, it's too bad Cas Latency sucks anyway so it's a waste. You're dealing with what, 7's at best in DDR3 land?

Why bother when you can run DDR2 @ 4's and get better performance. The tech ain't there yet.

Add to it that the entire combination is a bottleneck unto itself.

I was pretty close to buying one ANYWAY but guess what killed that decision: NO eSATA or EXPRESS SLOT.

I bought a Nehalem Quad Core 17" Laptop instead... that has both eSata and Express Slots. =T Cost less than a 13.3" Macbook Pro Spec'd out too. Weighs about 7Lbs and it's got ye ole yummy X25-M 80GB Intel SSD in it. Would'a liked an OCZ Summit 120GB more but eh, can't be choosy.

LoL... and is clocked faster.

Pretty sure it'll run Leo--- I mean...

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

13" and 15" MacBook Pros Have a Slower SATA Interface

If it's true, then that's just sad.

IMO, I don't buy it. Most every SATA controller in production these days is 3Gb (SATA-II) and Apple offers SSD options and talks about their performance advantage. There could be other issues causing slower benchmarks too, such as OSX needing a driver update to better support the new MBPs' internal chipsets, stuff that probably wasn't rolled into 10.5.7.

I suppose we'll see how it all shakes out. And even though I doubt the SATA controller has been degraded to 150Gb, I wouldn't be totally surprised if it turns out to be true... Not with the desecration of the 15" as it stands.

 

[JosephArthur]

Well along with the new laptops, especially the for the near example of a new 17' Mac Book Pro.

I think we are also missing the topic of Snow Leopard trimming some things down in the Operating System's utilities as other software the os has to offer for $29 for older laptops of Leopard and the future preinstalled Snow Leopard.

For now I'll be happy to look at the Developers Version pre-release.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

3.) Benchmarks on FAST solid-state drives (SSDs) are showing a decrease in RAW disk i/o transfer rates on these same systems (in comparison to the previous generation MacBook Pros and MacBooks).

6.) No one really knows why this has been done and no one knows whether it can be fixed with a software/firmware update (it may or may not be able to be fixed).

If it's true, then that's just sad.

IMO, I don't buy it. Most every SATA controller in production these days is 3Gb (SATA-II) and Apple offers SSD options and talks about their performance advantage. There could be other issues causing slower benchmarks too, such as OSX needing a driver update to better support the new MBPs' internal chipsets, stuff that probably wasn't rolled into 10.5.7.

this explains a lot

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/new...ds-because-mac-osx-cant-handle-the-speed.aspx

 

[Pawel Achtel]

I would pay $500 more just to not run out dated Windows.

hehehe, I don't think there is a problem with outdated Windows, the problem is with broken Vista thingy.

I like this thread. It's hilaroious. :rofl:

 

[JanneJansson]

13" and 15" MacBook Pros Have a Slower SATA Interface

3.) Benchmarks on FAST solid-state drives (SSDs) are showing a decrease in RAW disk i/o transfer rates on these same systems (in comparison to the previous generation MacBook Pros and MacBooks).

Tech move fast and what is good today is old tomorrow. A company that downgrades a product line is so dead in the water that t's not even funny. :crying:

 

[Andrae Palmer]

Tech move fast and what is good today is old tomorrow. A company that downgrades a product line is so dead in the water that t's not even funny. :crying:

Yeah... especially when fast SSD's currently are beyond 1.5 Gb/sec

 

[PipeDreamer]

Pretty basic question.

Based on the information available so far, does anyone know if RED Scarlet will be able to use the ExpressCard in MBP 17"?

 

[David Wyatt]

Dear oh dear, Apple...what are you playing at?

"Apple has seriously downgraded the SATA controller in the latest MacBook Pro 13-inch and 15-inch update":

http://gizmodo.com/5291042/did-apple-downgrade-the-hard-drive-controller-in-the-new-macbook-pros

 

[Andrae Palmer]

This new battery design is screwing up the 13" and 15" line... glad I purchased the unibody 17". For the life of me I don't see why anyone would prefer SD slot over ExpressCard.... my guess is that most Mac users don't know what the slot could be used for.

 

[PipeDreamer]

For the life of me I don't see why anyone would prefer SD slot over ExpressCard.... my guess is that most Mac users don't know what the slot could be used for.

I am one of them. Can you please let me know if it can be used with the RED Scarlet when it comes out?

 

[Alex Carr]

You use the expresscard slot for hooking up faster drives to your laptop.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

Yes it can be used with a Scarlet or RED One. The Express Card can be used for firewire 400/800, usb, eSATA, SD slot, compact flash slot, video capture device, 3g wireless, etc. Think of the ExpressCard has an expansion slot, like ones on the rear of desktop computers.

You can hook up devices like these:
http://sonnettech.com/product/macbookaccessories/index.html

As well as many more i/o cards like the matrox mxo2.

 

[ericyoung]

Apple obviously has a marketing department that really arrogantly thinks no one will notice that the style over function ratio is going the wrong way.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

hehehe, I don't think there is a problem with outdated Windows, the problem is with broken Vista thingy.

Yep. And Vista isn't nearly as broken as it's made out to be. Just need to know how to configure it. It's rather bloated though. Windows 7 seems to be making some nice strides there. But that's not really what this thread is about...

I like this thread. It's hilaroious. :rofl:

Not hilarious to those who have need for a Mac notebook as an established part of their workflow or to deal with client workflows. And hackintosh systems are not always an option in pro environments due to copyrights and whatnot.

 

[Kholi Hicks]

And hackintosh systems are not always an option in pro environments due to copyrights and whatnot.

Actually, you're right. And not just due to copyrights, etc, but instabilities and performance hits. So I take that back, I wouldn't recommend a "hackinmac" in an environment that demands stability. Which means you should just shell out for the real thing.

I would have probably purchased a 13" Macbook Pro had these changes/hits to overall performance not reared their ugly heads. Having personally dealt with the headaches of said hybrid-OS Machines, it just ain't pretty when something doesn't work right.

Even still... my new toy will arrive on Wednesday. It happens to be a mobile Quad Core notebook that weighs a mighty 7 lbs... has express and eSata ports and lots of other things. I am curious (... yes, curious, not already aware of... ) if it will play nice with other OS's

...

 

[Craig Schober]

i'm still unclear as to the practical problems here. is anyone capturing to a hard drive array directly from a macbook pro? and unless you're editing multiple streams of uncompressed 4k (which no portable can currently do) why is such bandwidth necessary? i think this is just a case of some people who already have an investment in fast sata raids that don't want change but the industry (even the pro industry) is built upon change. even if the vocal minority thinks they're going backwards at the moment.

i've read that only the mbp that ship with hdd are limited to the 1.5gb while the ssd models run the full 3.0gb so it's not like apple is even crippling those users either (not that any single solid state drive even approaches that yet).

sure they force us into the 17" for an express card slot but they also lowered the price on that 17" a lot. i never cared for the size of a 17" but i always thought of it as a necessary evil for editing/viewing 4k or 2k.

for me, they've made my future purchasing choices easier.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

We can't blame this on Jobs. He has been on medical leave for the past 6 months.

No we can't. Because this is how Apple has always made hardware decisions. Arbitrarily and without any sort of reason or sense. That's why I switched a LONG time ago and never looked back. I like having decent 3d cards within 10 years of their release. Just be thankful Apples are finally on Intel chips--running shake on PowerPC... ughhh.

I don't think a boycott or "speaking with your dollars" really does anything in this scenario. Being loud and whiny though does.

The amount of negative fuss that can be raised about it is far greater than the actual monetary value of said customers leaving Apple. It's sort of the dirty dark secret of the pro tools... most customers aren't pros. But without the professional halo of real world use then the marketing gets spoiled.

If tiger woods started bad mouthing Nike products you can bet they would be more than happy to listen to his concerns in order to keep his seal of approval.