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Red One Canon 5D Video Test

Rick Darge

Rick Darge

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This was a rough and dirty test I shot yesterday afternoon. Results are interesting so I thought I'd share. The main purpose was to simply see how the 5D stacked up to my R1. I wanted to see if the 5D could hold up as a solid b-cam/mobile unit on shoots until Scarlet is released. I also really wanted to see how the Red sensor compares to the full frame Canon sensor when using the same glass. Since I'm going FF Epic, this will give an idea of what to expect with those still lenses.

My aim was to get both cameras as close to eachother as possible. I just went with natural light and rated accordingly. Initially everything was shot with REC709 320-800ISO. After I pulled the Red footage into color, I changed the gamma (redspace) and subsequently lowered the ISO when it was appropriate.

Tested out the trusted Nikon 17-35 f/2.8, Nikon ZF 50 f/1.4, Nikon AIS 85 f/2, Peleng 8mm f/16.

I chose Redspace on Red when testing since this gamma curve looked more similar to Canons' final image. Canon really crushes the blacks and boosts the saturation as you'll notice. I did a light white balance on the Red footage. Just adjusted kelvin a couple of times and ISO. No S curves on anything. I brought all the Red footage into Color to make sure gamma/colorspace was even across the board. Red was shot with 4k 16x9 RC28 29.97. Canon was 1920x1080 h264 30.








http://vimeo.com/5160288
 
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I did go full manual on the Canon. Latest firmware for both cameras. I kept the white balance on auto for the Canon.
 
Hey Richard- thanks for doing these tests. I have been very curious about this for awhile. It would seem to be an acceptable B camera as long as you don't have to pan or tilt very quickly. (what JJ has been saying all along)
Also, due to the weight- it seems very vulnerable to any bumping. That of course could be fixed in post if necessary.
Again- thanks for taking the time.
 
Richard you must of boosted saturation and contrast on the 5D to max levels, there is no way the image can look that crushed out of the box. Or does it?
 
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Hey Grady, That's the Canon 'look' right out of the box. I brought the h264 files onto an FCP timeline. 2048x1152 Pro Res HQ codec. I sent the whole timeline to Color. I didn't touch the Canon files. Just spit them out to 29.97 Pro Res HQ.
 
That is horrible. Can you fix it? I guess that is the power of a RAW workflow. If you screw something up even a little bit with the Canon you are pretty much screwed it looks like.

Did you shoot the RED in 24p? its surprising how much more filmic the RED looks than the Canon, if that makes any sense at all. Maybe that is what Phis is talking about.
 
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I did but am pretty sure that didn't translate over when I brought the Red footage into Color since we don't have the app update yet.
 
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Grady Wilson said:
That is horrible. Can you fix it? I guess that is the power of a RAW workflow. If you screw something up even a little bit with the Canon you are pretty much screwed it looks like.

Did you shoot the RED in 24p? its surprising how much more filmic the RED looks than the Canon, if that makes any sense at all. Maybe that is what Phis is talking about.
Click to expand...

You have access to different picture settings with presets. You can dial up saturation, sharpness, contrast, color tone and white balance. The 5D was set to STANDARD mode for this test. I was just playing around with it and noticed the NEUTRAL setting looks more in line with the Redspace gamma curve. No doubt about RAW. I shot Red in 29.97 onto the hard drive. I know what you mean about filmic. Red has way more detail in those mid tones/shadows. Everything is nice and pleasing looking.
 
Thank you for doing this Richard. I must admit I was starting to eye that 5D and after this I am sticking with RED.

Out of curiosity, what was that test you did running towards the camera supposed to show?
 
As an owner of 4 5d2's and a RED..... I can add the following:

The "baked" in settings are acceptable if your careful about your white balance and your exposure.... not much room for correction in post as it falls apart pretty easily. Also.... you'll get much better results if you create a "style" setting that pulls back on the contrast, sat, and sharpness.

My main problem with the 5d2's is the "alliasing" that appears... especially when shooting a scene with brick buildings..... If you shoot with a fast lens and have shallow DOF you will be able to hide it most of the time.

Another issue.... the rolling shutter makes it impossible to correct shaky with FCP's smoothcam.... just wont look good.

As for the RED.... fantastic! Obviously it's a bigger and heavier rig to work with.... but the imagery the RED creates is streets above the 5d2. I'm constantly impressed with the dynamic range of the footage.
 
My Canon 50D doesn't record video, but it has an HDMI output which works in "live view" mode. Looking at the HDMI output, it appears to be 30 fps at 1/30 sec shutter, which is certainly not the same motion as a 180 degree shutter. Does the 5DII work that way as well?
 
Grady Wilson said:
Thank you for doing this Richard. I must admit I was starting to eye that 5D and after this I am sticking with RED.

Out of curiosity, what was that test you did running towards the camera supposed to show?
Click to expand...

Just wanted a body in motion outside. No reason. :sifone:
 
Thanks for doing the test Richard. I still want to get a 5D2 but I've always wanted it just for night timelapse shots. I really have no interest if it shoots video. Seems cool and a nice tool to have in the bag. I'm more interested in the Nikon to Canon mount that your using to get these shots because the ZF glass that I bought for my Red would look cool on my 40D.
 
No camera is set up correctly "out-of-the-box". I don't have a 5DII yet, but I do have a 5D, and find "Faithful" is a good starting point.
Another er..minor point....a working Red set-up is, what, 10x as much as a 5DII? And people are slating it for not being as good as a Red One? Get real!
Dave
 
Thanks for doing this test, Rick.

A couple of thoughts:

1) To be fair, this material should be presented at 1080p. 720p can hide a lot of resolution and other issues with the 5D2.

2) The color-correction work on the Red footage is very dull and flat. This is unfair, since the contrast, saturation, etc, are boosted through the roof on the 5D2.

3) The 5D2 seems to hold the sky a hell of a lot better than the R1. I don't know if this is a result of your lack-luster grading, though? I have heard people claiming that R1 has a clear "DR advantage" over the 5D2, but I never thought that was true. It has a million other advantages, for sure, but DR is not one of them, as far as I can tell.
 
I would have put up a 1080 file but bandwidth issues. If someone wants to host it, I can send one over if people are interested. Just PM me. I kept the Red at defaults as well as the Canon. I'm using the STANDARD picture setting on the Canon so none of the SAT/CONTRAST levels are boosted. They're all zeroed out as far as I can tell. Once again, no s-curves applied to any of the Red or Canon footage. Rec709 has better dynamic range but I wanted to just get the imagery closer, gamma wise. I should do a retest when I have time to try and grade them both as best as they can be, rather than 'out of the box'
 
Glad I bought the 5DMKII. I can work within it's limitations and get some great footage at a fraction of the cost of a RED.

If I get some budgets that justify a RED I will certainly rent one.

Otherwise, my clients will more than love the look of the 5DMKII.

Check out this test with a Sigma 50mm 1.4:

http://www.theprogamer.com/daniel/sigma_50_14-stream.mov
 
David Swan said:
Another er..minor point....a working Red set-up is, what, 10x as much as a 5DII? And people are slating it for not being as good as a Red One? Get real!
Dave
Click to expand...

I think this is the biggest thing that is overlooked in the Red/5D battle. Yes, hands down, the Red is a superior camera- because it costs $30k to get it running. If you want a slick, great looking camera for under 5K, the 5D is an awesome option. But the Red will always be better. :)
 
Yeah, same as when people like to compare the R1 to Genesis. The fact that you can even compare them is testament alone.

Difference here is the R1 can go against the Genesis feature by feature, and wins in many areas.

The 5D seems like it will always be a "if you get it exactly right on set and don't challenge it in post" scenario. A lot of pressure and extra time on set.

Still, a great thing to have in the kit, just don't know if it could ever be the main piece in your kit.

Jonathan Stevenson said:
I think this is the biggest thing that is overlooked in the Red/5D battle. Yes, hands down, the Red is a superior camera- because it costs $30k to get it running. If you want a slick, great looking camera for under 5K, the 5D is an awesome option. But the Red will always be better. :)
Click to expand...
 
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