How will Scarlet impact film/video in 2010?

[Zhibo Lai]

With the Scarlet's expected arrival in late 2009, by 2010 there will be a flood of Scarlet owners. This is indeed a very good thing as I have been behind Scarlet since it was first announced and have been convincing every filmmaker I know to go Red.

Recently, even in the small town of the nation's capitol, I have seen more and more Red One users and films being shot on Red. The market here is quickly being saturated with Red Ones.

With the extreme low price of Scarlets, I can only see an exploding market of Scarlet users by 2010.

What pros and cons do people see in a world where every filmmaker/videographer has their own cinema quality capable camera at their disposal.

Some off the top of my head:
- all camera rentals will plunge
- drive the other companies to make better cameras
- the only allure of an indie film will be its content and talents behind and in front of camera, no more need to worry about tech specs.
- as a result, the content quality of indie films will be pushed to a new level

 

[M Most]

- all camera rentals will plunge
- drive the other companies to make better cameras
- the only allure of an indie film will be its content and talents behind and in front of camera, no more need to worry about tech specs.
- as a result, the content quality of indie films will be pushed to a new level

I agree with the first two, although it won't be as severe at the higher end professional level, where support, reliability, and service actually matter. I disagree with the third because post production still matters. In fact, it matters a lot, particularly with sound, and particularly with projects that are not shot, shall we say, professionally. And the fourth, well, I think that's completely wishful thinking that just won't materialize. What I think you'll see is a lot more "indie" (and by that I mean individuals with a camera, not "real" indies with budgets - because that seems to be what you're talking about) projects that are at the same low level they are now. And I don't think the increase in image resolution will matter one iota. Not to mention that devices like the new Panasonic GH1 are even cheaper than the Scarlet, and will appeal to many in that market who don't want to deal with RAW conversions and the like.

In other words, if you think YouTube is a wasteland now, it will be an even larger wasteland a few years from now.

 

[Tom Visser]

I agree with the first two, although it won't be as severe at the higher end professional level, where support, reliability, and service actually matter. I disagree with the third because post production still matters. In fact, it matters a lot, particularly with sound, and particularly with projects that are not shot, shall we say, professionally. And the fourth, well, I think that's completely wishful thinking that just won't materialize. What I think you'll see is a lot more "indie" (and by that I mean individuals with a camera, not "real" indies with budgets - because that seems to be what you're talking about) projects that are at the same low level they are now. And I don't think the increase in image resolution will matter one iota.

In other words, if you think YouTube is a wasteland now, it will be an even larger wasteland a few years from now.

I have to agree here. The "Indy" film maker is by no means unto itself a very good adjective in describing a film maker. Some of these Indies may have been shooting on 35mm, others on 8mm. DV sort of replaced 8mm and in many respects, provided a huge upgrade in the quality of product with a few detractions too. When you look at the Scarlet, with its $4k-$6k price, lets just take a guess at some of the math going into this equation. how many of these Indy's would have been shooting film, and are now saving money by going with the RED workflow? How many of these Indy's would have shot on their HVX, HVR, XH, or other HDDV camera, but now have purchased a relatively expensive camera for them... now their extremely strapped budget leaves less money to hire the proper lighting equipment, DPs, sound crew, etc...? One could argue that there would be an even greater propensity for amateurism in the quantity of material coming from the Indy market. I think that the end result will be a much higher level of quality in the top segment, but this is because good equipment will allow good film makers to strut their stuff. To assume that better cameras will make better cinema makes the assumption that good cinema's challenge has always been the camera and not the people behind it.

 

[Joel Chu]

I seen some pretty bad "35mm" Production (I regularly watch over 20 films per week)

And you are right about more and more people shoot on RED. With the introduction of Scarlet, are we in for more bad movies that look good?

There are constant discussion here about what is good, what is better or what is great. But I have seen fantastic looking short film shoot on a HV20 and I have seen some rubbish that is shoot on 35mm, so at the end of the day, it's not what camera you use that counts.

And I can not agree more with mmost. The word "professional" really really need a lot more than just a camera.

 

[GPSchnyder]

I think that more No-Budget movies will be done in a better way. The Indies with Money will use the RedOne or so ;-)

One positive side would be that more Movies are done that are not the "Standard Hollywood Flick".

 

[killfilm]

i think the films that really suck now whether on DV, HD, Film will suck more but at a different resolution and format. Just different suckiness:w00t:

 

[Rex McArtor]

I agree that the camera will not change if a movie is good or bad. I am a no budget film maker (for now) and am waiting anxiously for the scarlet. I do not feel that money makes a good movie, you don't need to fork out $100 million dollars to make a good film. I am just hoping that with the extreme quality boost over what I could get now with HDV cameras will help with festival acceptance.

I have several shorts written and were going to start shooting on an HV30 until I saw that this was coming out. I have followed red since before Red One but never could afford it, this changes that. So I think it will help people like me who want to make films, but want to make them look better. I know it won't make the movie itself better but it will be more pleasing to view. It isn't going to make any more rubbish films come out that wouldn't already.

 

[GPSchnyder]

Yeah. It gives People like me and Rex (No-Budget Filmmakers) a Tool that doesn't have the limitations like HDV Cams have. And in my case it suites the way I work, as I mainly do my work in Post. And no. Bad Movies will even turn more bad, as you then can clearly see how bad they are ;-)

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

It'll be interesting to see what happens to VFX.

Just because you can shoot a 4k film now doesn't mean you can find VFX artists willing to work on the free at that level.

Either VFX are going to start looking worse relative to the films around them in small indie projects or else you're just going to see less of it.

Right now we're kind of in a sweet spot where VFX tools have become easy and fast enough that you can deliver pretty great SD content on a shoe string budget. But now people are expecting 1080 and 4k deliverables. That rules out a lot of quick and dirty solutions that would sneak by unnoticed on a DVD. Pretty hard to fake detail at 4k.

 

[Eki Halkka]

Pretty hard to fake detail at 4k.

Word.

It's like everything was in extreme closeup, you need 16 times more detail than on SD. And when it comes to 3D, all that detail has to be hand made - it's murder.

 

[Josh Negrin]

i think the films that really suck now whether on DV, HD, Film will suck more but at a different resolution and format. Just different suckiness:w00t:

but I hear with 4K, you can tell better stories.

 

[Juhan Malmstein]

Sure the Scarlet won't create a wave of young filmmakers like myself who will instantly start making hollywood level productions the minute a scarlet is released, but when it will be released it will provide to be an extremely good tool for young filmmakers.

I for example have access to all the sound and light equipment from my film school where I'm studying, but all the cameras we have are various HD cameras. So if I need some depth in my shots I need to get a 35mm adapter in front of whichever HD camera, instead of just using the fixed Scarlet that would give the 6x larger HD rigs a run for their money. The main point would be that it's so tiny that you can easily create shots with it that would be a lot more difficult with the larger HD cams like the JVC proHD etc. Making a cable rig for bike or snowboard movies is much easier with a tiny camera like a scarled 8x(autofocus could replace remote follow focus) or even a s35 Scarlet with photo glass with a minimal setup. Need a high pov? Just stick the camera on a stick, shove a wideangle on top of it, shoot like 120fps to make the pan smoother, and run it through image stabilization later if needed, the 3k will give LOADS of room to crop from if it's going to either 1080p, 2k or 720p and into the internet. The combination of resolution, processing power(high fps) and form(tiny compared to anything else remotely good) make it a perfect tool for working on small-budget-means-no-budget films.

I hope I'll find a buyer for one of my kidneys when the fixed 8x Scarlet comes out :shiftyph34r:

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

I kid, I kid

I kid, I kid

What kind of shape is that kidney in... :devil:

 

[Josh Negrin]

for a healthy kidney couldn't he get a RED ONE? Or is that still going for an arm and a leg?

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

I don't think that rental houses will plunge. Not for the sole reason of Scarlet. They're having a hard time as it is because of the world situation, not necessarily RED or later Scarlet.

There's a huge difference between renting from a professional set up with Pro gear and the individual camera owner. The costs for gear around the camera body is TREMENDOUS. I've invested alone in my gear well over $800K, tell me the average individual owner who has the possibility of doing that? AND I STILL can't beat a Pro rental house with my gear.

The average smaller rental house will have more problems yes but the high end industry will still need the comfort and security of the bigger ones.

 

[GPSchnyder]

Talking about VFX.

You can do a lot of stuff, even in higher resolutions if you allow yourself to introduce some noise to the whole Image afterwards. This way you can get away with a lot of effects that clean would look like banta poop. ;-)

And I'll do "only" 2k, which is not that much more than the 1920*1080 I did with my Sony FX1/HC1. And there I could get away with a lot of stuff vfx-wise...

The 3k are only for stabilizing, or small zoom ins or Pan and zooms. This kind of stuff. That way you can work most of the time on a tripod.

At least that's the Plan ;-)

George

 

[Joel Chu]

Sure the Scarlet won't create a wave of young filmmakers like myself who will instantly start making hollywood level productions the minute a scarlet is released, but when it will be released it will provide to be an extremely good tool for young filmmakers.

Hollywood level? I would love to see what you have shoot before.

Do you have A-list on your cast?

Why not just go and rent a 2/3 chips camera (there are plenty) and shoot it now?

 

[GPSchnyder]

Hollywood level? I would love to see what you have shoot before.

Do you have A-list on your cast?

Why not just go and rent a 2/3 chips camera (there are plenty) and shoot it now?

He said won't...

And by the Way, Hollywood would not be the Standard everyone wants to reach for (only) there is far better stuff outside ;-)

 

[M Most]

And by the Way, Hollywood would not be the Standard everyone wants to reach for (only) there is far better stuff outside ;-)

Perhaps in content. Not in production value.

 

[Tom Visser]

I predict that there will be a tidal wave or ridiculous depth of field shots, more or less inappropriate for the shot in question. I'm already seeing it in major productions now - where shallow DOF is sort of the sweetheart of techniques or something. I find it annoying when used flippantly, but absolutely awesome when used at the right time (but then I don't really notice it, because I'm engrossed into the story).