Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Still changing...

Jarred Land said:
One more....

1_shoulder.jpg
Click to expand...

Gorgeous.
 
Answers

Answers

There are no fans on the new system correct?

You are already planning to have a full frame 1080p recording. I've seen this..

Do you plan to allow a downrezzed 1080p live output via HD-SDI? (You are already planning to record it, I've heard that)

Will you allow us to select the on screen data for any output (In the past if it was on the EVF and LCD then the SDI was a clean output and there was nothing you could do about that.

Will HDMI still be a part of an I/O module in the future?

Will you still have two powered 12v Lemo connectors on board the camera (these are pretty popular with the RED ONE)

Will you still have lens control for b4 lenses? (Not sure how popular this feature was, so I am curious to know if it survived the next evolution)

I know boot up time has been improved to less than 10 seconds.. You've said this...

Will you open up REDCODE so that third party vendors can do more with it? (The keys to the kingdom you once called it)
Click to expand...


To add to Jim's comments -

There is a fan in every brain... just more quiet and not used as much as the R1.

Yes to scaled (i.e. full frame sensor) 1080P recording.

Yes to 1080p output via HD-SDI (via optional I/O modules), but also available via HDMI

HDMI is standard on every brain. Additional HDMI in form of 2nd EVF / LCD output is also available from optional I/O modules

Aux 12V output will be available from at least one of the optional I/O modules

No lens control for B4 lenses. But basic start / stop / replay triggers (as per R1) available on 10-pin AUX / RS232 connector on optional I/O modules.

REDCODE has been opened up and will be more in the future.

Boot up time is 2 seconds or less.
 
I have been following the posts about camera ergonomics with some interest and thinking about what works for me and how I shoot these days. I’ve been reflecting on how I worked with the many cameras I have owned or used dating all the way back to the 70’s. I have owned the Canon Scoopic, Bolex R4, Beaulieu R16, Éclair ACL and NPR, used the SR and later owned several Betacams from Sony and Ike. I shot most 35 with BL 3 & 4s, and occasionally MOS with Arri 2’s and 3’s and a Konvas. Most of my handheld work was with the NPR and later the Betacams. I never had the chance to use an Aaton.

Of all of those cameras, none of them were handheld friendly in the noiseless cams. I shot hundreds of documentaries with the NPR and my preferred position was under my shoulder shuggled against my body with my right hand under the body and my left to deal with focus and shot size. This camera was a heavy beast, and at 6 foot 4, putting it on my shoulder meant I was looking down on people anyhow. Same with the Betacams frequently. Once I was called a human tripod for being so steady, but as I got older I used sticks or dollies whenever possible because the shows required a rock steady camera. Now I only shoot hand-held in very close situations.

At a Michael McDonald concert last night there were two camera operators onstage on either side shooting close-ups from a distance of about 30 feet. They did this for almost 3 hours with a few very short breaks from time to time. I was paying some attention to one of them, a young woman holding a full-size tethered video camera with a 18 or 20x lens on shoulder and seemingly very steady both standing straight up and down on one knee, plus she was rather cute. I probably could not have pulled this off since my early 40’s and thought I would no longer try. I would use my triangle jib in that situation and be happier with the results.

As a tall guy shooting hand held underslung is still my preferred method and so the Red One still works for me, as I hope the new cameras from Red will as well. I am happy to see what the designers come up with based on their design needs, some of which I don't expect to know about.

Bruce
 
Jim, what decisions went into making the native aspect ratio of the 2/3-inch Scarlet's sensor approximately 1.89:1 rather than 16:9? Was it to achieve a better yield on the wafer? Is the 16:9 pixel count 2,880 x 1,620?
 
Is there a 720P SDI output on the (Epic) brains? This is important for very small configs like POV and mounting in vehicles etc. where you want as little size/mass as possible but will be viewing remotely.

Lastly, and I know this is a sore one but do you guys have a preliminary sensitivity (ISO) rating of the Mysterium X? Even if you just say, "yes, it's more sensitive than the R1" that'll make me happy.
 
Evin I think MysteriumX is supposed to be 1 stop faster then the REDOne Mysterium and Monstro is supposed to be 2 stops faster than the RedOne
 
Matt Uhry said:
You ( waiting for Gibby to step in ) probably will use it differently. So remind them of what you want.
Click to expand...

LOL - Gibby just stepped in, but I see that Jim has already given you some excellent answers.

Yes, I do see the issue of ergonomics of a camera different than you, but then again we work in different industries most of the time. Beyond my work as an executive producer, director, editor, and scriptwriter, I've also worked professionally as a stills photographer since '69, a cinematographer since '79, and a videographer since '80. You wont find me with a profile on IMDB, because it is "Internet Movie Data Base", and I don't do movies - I do about everything else. For the curious, a simple Google search of my name will get you a ton of info on my background. I built my career long before there was an iMDB web site, I don’t do movies, and I have no problem marketing my services - thus I see no reason to submit info for an iMDB profile.

From our work together at LART you know I can shoot about anything and nail it - eye focusing as I did with the RED 300 automobile sequence, and even framing and focusing if necessary without any visual reference (no EVF or LCD) like I did on with the RED 50-150 on the fight sequence. While others are endlessly debating RED One's ergonomics and features, I'm always out there on the front lines maximizing the camera, setting it up in the most logical way to get the needed shots, and nailing them - usually with a minimal crew around me, and doing the camera functions by myself.

With RED One I shoot cine style when it is the best choice for a shot sequence, hybrid cine/EFP style when it is the best choice, and straight EFP style when the best choice - and working non-union projects in the cool genres I work in allows me that creative freedom to develop diverse skill sets.

From the very announcement of RED One I've supported the concept of modularity and scalability - because it allows the camera to be setup and used in a wider variety of genres and sub-genres - and as a worker it thus allows me to do better fiscally. I support those same concepts in Epic and Scarlet - modularity and scalability. In my opinion the guys who give RED the hardest time about ergonomics of RED One (and now Epic and Scarlet) generally fit a certain profile: strictly cine style traditionalists, who usually work union gigs. Well, you know what Matt, there are a ton of us professionals in this motion media industry who do understand and maximize modularity and scalability, see the diverse utility (and revenue generation potential) of those principles, don't do union work (by choice), and have been happily setting up and using the supposedly ergonomically deficient RED One for a long time now - over 18 months of heavy R1 use now for me.

I've set R1 up and used it in every conceivable configuration scores of times - straight cine, hybrid cine/EFP, and straight EFP. I've shot heavily with it shoulder held, hand held, on various tripods, from boats, from helicopters, in the water, from cars, in big crews, in medium crews, in small crews, and by myself. I choose the accessories and lenses (and thus ergonomics) which are best for each shot sequence - and go out and nail the shots.

I'm busy having fun with RED One on a wide variety of projects, I love the camera including its modularity, and my clients have loved the footage results - too busy to grouse around about the supposed ergonomic shortcomings of the camera, or compare it to an Arri 235, Aeton, F900, or whatever. I just turned it into what I needed - and went out and got images that me and my clients really liked.

Don't write me off as "just a sports and nature" shooter either. I've worked heavily in the music industry also (and other industries) - producing, directing, and shooting projects featuring many "name" bands. In fact, in just two weeks time I'll be in Manila, Philippines working as DP and one of the shoulder held cinematographers (using ET Mantis) for a 10 RED camera production featuring Journey in a stadium full of 40,000 fans. Skills wise that's a far cry from the National Geographic Channel nature documentary in Alaska I worked heavily on last year as an executive producer, DP, and cinematographer - which airs nationally just a few days after I return from Manila (airs 3/21 @ 8pm, title "Icy Killers").

To the guy on this thread who doesn't know of any professional DP's or cinematographers who like RED One's ergonomics - well, you know one now - me. You can add to that a huge list of my associates in this industry.

Matt – we’re friends, I respect you professionally, and respect the niche of the motion media industry you work in. But respect should be a 2-way street, and I simply get the feeling that the guys who work in your industry niche, and are based where you are (L.A.) somehow have this superiority complex toward the other motion media industry workers, and don't think we can figure out questions like camera ergonomics - which couldn't be further from the truth.

I love the modularity, scalability, and flexibility of RED One - and I'm liking those concepts even more in Epic and Scarlet.
 
Jannard said:
It is a miracle we are still in business. :-)

What is frustrating to us is that we HAVE listened, but some of you haven't. I don't know how many times I have had to answer the same question 5 times. Like the EVF is too low (in this render) when it is on your shoulder... it is adjustable with over 3" of vertical travel. It is out of balance... ", well, that depends on what configuration you put together. We have prototypes here that balance on your shoulder without holding the camera. The camera sits lower to your shoulder than most ENG rigs.

Jim
Click to expand...

Jim - don't get frustrated, with me after skimming my post ! As I stated my examples of the Red 1 developments are just to explain why I'm not going to take a wait and see approach as one of the other posters suggested. The value the Red 1 represents compared to ALL other cameras is UNDENIABLE.

Ergonomically speaking the Epic is 85% there... Just a few things like where the ports are, how the cables are going to come out and how the modular bits fit together. I can see that the bits can move around. Modular.

I would like to think that at least one molecule of the Epic is more the way I want it because of input given here on this board.

Not asking for an A-Minima. A-Minima's suck in my experience. Good for a body or bicycle rig, but not much else. An Arri 416 would be a great target to hit ( or even exceed ? )

< For Gibby - Love and Respect ! We both know you can kick my ass at the Pull Your Own Focus, and Framing Without a Viewfinder events in the Camera Olympics ! Have a thrilla' in Manila ! >
 
Matt Uhry said:
< For Gibby - Love and Respect ! We both know you can kick my ass at the Pull Your Own Focus, and Framing Without a Viewfinder events in the Camera Olympics ! Have a thrilla' in Manila ! >
Click to expand...

LOL - no visual reference (no EVF or LCD) isn't my favorite way to shoot - but we do what we gotta do to get the shot, right?! :)

I'm lookin' forward to the 'Thrilla in Manila" for sure...again, another challenge. Like you, I'm challenge driven...

Peace braddah...
 
Jannard said:
It is a miracle we are still in business. :-)

The RED ONE was NOT perfectly designed by any means. It was done in a year (concept to 1st workable prototype)... PJ footage in 15 months from "Go". There are a lot more things to think about than ergo in a startup camera company. Let me see... our competition in the digital space was the Genesis, F23, D20 and Dalsa. I would say the RED ONE is a lot better handheld unit than any of those. But it (and everything else) can be done better the 2nd time around. Enter Scarlet & Epic.

What is frustrating to us is that we HAVE listened, but some of you haven't. I don't know how many times I have had to answer the same question 5 times. Like the EVF is too low (in this render) when it is on your shoulder... it is adjustable with over 3" of vertical travel. It is out of balance... ", well, that depends on what configuration you put together. We have prototypes here that balance on your shoulder without holding the camera. The camera sits lower to your shoulder than most ENG rigs.

I am also pretty much "over" making it look and feel like an A-Minima. 1st off, that is a 16mm film camera that does NOT do shoulder well (I own one). And if you think a Sony 950 is a good shoulder rig...???

What some of you are missing is the "combination effect". You want the best of several different cameras rolled into one for 10% the price. You want it to outperform a $300K S35 sensor camera (check), with the ergo of a Super 16mm film camera. I think that while many here have contributed ideas that have led to changes... there is a point where you are just flat unrealistic.

Jay made a suggestion of moving the antenna off the top of the I/O module today. We are seeing if we can do that. But to turn our camera design into something else just isn't going to happen.

The new system is modular in every aspect. Upgrade a piece without buying a new camera. It is impossibly light and small for what it does... which is out-spec every digital camera ever made. We have proven REDCODE to be invaluable. We are bringing professional quality images at prosumer prices. We are giving you choices inside the same system... 2/3", S35, FF35, 645, 617, adjustable REDCODE, DSMC, studio, ENG, hot-swappable batteries, remote UI, several record to options. We have customer support beyond anyone's imagination. So... what is it you want?

Jim
Click to expand...


Jim - brother, and I don't say that lightly - you are the MAN. They don't get it. And that's not meant as an insult; it took me a second to get what you're up to as well. And when I finally realized the method behind your approach, I understood there was little to comment on. I only really feel the need to chime in if I see something that is potentially problematic, or to offer encouragement when I feel you're on the right track. At this point, just keep working to get us the best camera at the best possible price point. You seem close to filmic nirvana. Keep at it.

I am fortunate enough to work with a studio that just received an SI-2K as part of their rental arsenal (which means I get to use it whenever, and I'm like a kid in a candy store). One of the engineers behind the camera gave the demonstration, and the camera is pretty incredible. As a matter of fact, the form factor of the Scarlet and SI-2K mirror one another closely. However, there are many things the Scarlet will do (speculatively), which outperforms that platform. For example, once the SI engineers were gone and we were left with camera, our in-house techs had a hell of a time trying to get the Cineform UI to install and interface with the camera properly - something that should be a fairly easy task. Obviously, there are a ton of things to consider when developing such an advanced camera platform.

I'm sure you own one yourself. And I'm sure you have EVERY intent of making sure you pummel the competition. Hahaha. You're about as competitive as any person I've had the pleasure of knowing (even if it is in a virtual space). I'm the same way...I just don't have a billion dollars to compete with. :) That combined with the fact that your heart is in the right place...you literally CANNOT lose. We won't let you. You know the secret to business, life and alchemy.

Even with the economy in the dumpster, you've made it so exciting to be a filmmaker, and I'm looking forward to owning one of the cameras you've developed.

Thank you.

Eryc
 
roryhinds said:
Evin I think MysteriumX is supposed to be 1 stop faster then the REDOne Mysterium and Monstro is supposed to be 2 stops faster than the RedOne
Click to expand...

M-X has one stop more DNR than M. Monstro has 2 stops more than M-X. We haven't determined how much more sensitivity they have yet.

Jim
 
Watching from the sidelines these days.

My main curiosity about the DSMC design is what can I accomplish with just a brain? It has such a small profile that I'm excited about sticking it in corners, on dashboards, maybe skateboards, bikes, snowboards etc... Maybe it's not that small...

Can I run a Red drive or Red Ram from the brain or do I need the I/O module to do that? Is the I/O module just for HD-SDI output and audio input, what else does it do? It's just hard to get a good understanding of the camera from renders when I don't know what that a particular config is capable of accomplishing.

IBloom
 
I'm not sure how anyone can say Epic as 85% there when they have only seen 50% of the system (and never held it)... :-)

All good here...

Jim
 
So, I'm fine with the setups and I love the pictures! Jim did ask..."What do you want?"

I just want rough estimates for release! And more info about the complete kit scarlet, but you already stated that it's too early to determine.

Anyways, you don't have to give dates now, but that's my answer to the question. :) I'm happy with the specs, size of the systems and the ability to customize the entire rig.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top