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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

A market for trustworthy DITs?

As someone who is filling the role of a IATSE 600 DIT:

Yes, it is a "worth while" job. Yes, it requires a whole hell of alot of knowledge and money to buy in. There are many things I do that clearly fall under the 600 jurisdiction. I also take many steps to not impede on 695 territory either.
 
Well I'm curious, what is the IATSE 600 minimum day rate for a DCE/DIT worker?
 
J. Eric Camp said:
As someone who is filling the role of a IATSE 600 DIT:

Yes, it is a "worth while" job. Yes, it requires a whole hell of alot of knowledge and money to buy in. There are many things I do that clearly fall under the 600 jurisdiction. I also take many steps to not impede on 695 territory either.
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I'm glad that we don't have such rules over here in Europe. I can do what I want and is reasonable and don't step into anyones "territory". The land of the free seems to be pretty dependent. Experienced this once shooting in SF - pretty complicated.

Hans
 
Hans von Sonntag said:
I'm glad that we don't have such rules over here in Europe. I can do what I want and is reasonable and don't step into anyones "territory". The land of the free seems to be pretty dependent. Experienced this once shooting in SF - pretty complicated.

Hans
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That's what I was thinking!
I think I'm good at DIT work already, and with some more knowledge I could be really great.
But in no way do I want to be a DIT for the rest of my career. It's a specialized job that not many can do correctly so I'd like to be able to make some money at it IN THE TIME BEING.

I don't want to join IATSE though and pay the initiation fee then pay union dues because IATSE work isn't what I want to pursue with my life.
DIT isn't even what I want to do 2 years from now. I just happened to be skilled at something that not many people understand and if a union is going to prevent me from doing that, well, that sucks...
 
To be very clear, I don't know about a DCE.

This system does not work like a viper, dalsa or (in certain configs f23, f35, genesis or d21) No one is "operating" a capture device. Mags are loaded on the camera. They are then offloaded plain and simple. I know everyone knows this but these are the lines that get drawn in the sand.

Yes the rules are pretty intense on this side of the pond.

The rate varies with the type, length and budget of the project. It falls in the middle of the departments range though. Lets say that if you worked on a Major Motion picture 5 days a week, 10 hours a day with absolutely no overtime, MP, per diem etc. You would only need to work 3/4 of the year to start making roughly six figures.

The union can't and wont stop you from doing anything. However if you want to do it on "their jobs" you have to be a member.
 
J. Eric Camp said:
To be very clear, I don't know about a DCE.

This system does not work like a viper, dalsa or (in certain configs f23, f35, genesis or d21) No one is "operating" a capture device. Mags are loaded on the camera. They are then offloaded plain and simple. I know everyone knows this but these are the lines that get drawn in the sand.

Yes the rules are pretty intense on this side of the pond.

The rate varies with the type, length and budget of the project. It falls in the middle of the departments range though. Lets say that if you worked on a Major Motion picture 5 days a week, 10 hours a day with absolutely no overtime, MP, per diem etc. You would only need to work 3/4 of the year to start making roughly six figures.

The union can't and wont stop you from doing anything. However if you want to do it on "their jobs" you have to be a member.
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So IATSE covers the DIT position but not DCE? Does DIT, in the union sense, then only apply to cameras that require capture devices? I'm very new to how IATSE works.

Is IATSE going to be redefining their position titles any time soon?

Thanks.
 
IATSE is the overall umbrella organization that includes 600 and 695 and a bunch of other unions.

The simple fact is that camera tech is moving so fast that unions cant keep up with them. We have three unions basically arguing for the same "job" on set.

IMHO, the DIT should be responsible for everything on the camera - including recording to the digital mags that Red uses. The offloading could be a loader position on shows with the budget.

The DCE should be responsible for recording off camera. If the Red ever followed up on the full bandwidth raw recording over fiber optic (that was a listed feature, since dropped), that would be in the role of DCE. Or if the production chose to record 4:4:4 off the dual link HDSDI.

Local 700 is also trying for the on set job, because some of the offloading process does seem to cross into the assistant editor territory (logging, specifically). In my view they should be handed the copied hard drive and do their magic.

Theres a lot of fighting going on over this stuff at the moment, and while it does camera technology progresses....
 
The reality for you seems to be:

I did "this work" before becoming a Union member. I just was able to work on "other" jobs since becoming a union member.

There are lots of non-union projects. If you don't want to be doing this for more then 2 years then it makes little sense for you to go union. With, as someone else mentioned, roughly an 8k buy in and then dues and time to get your name up, it would be hard for the benefits to outweigh the start up on such a short timeframe.

As the digital medium grows the various unions are arguing over which of them have jurisdiction. It is going to take some time for it to get sorted out. For now, if you want to work with the camera, then the camera union is the place to start.
 
stevesherrick said:
There are union DITs (I believe Brook is one of them) who will work on the high end feature and commercial projects and then there are the independents who will work on indie features, mid-level commercials, corporate, music video, etc. Brook could probably speak to the union side of things a bit better.
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Is there a market for trustworthy DITs? Of course. Will there be a bigger market very shortly? You'd better believe it.

I am a local 600 DIT and have been for a while. As Steve said, there are [and always will be] different levels of production. None are better or worse, but some are bigger and some are smaller. In my time DITing, I've run the gamut... from tiny jobs out of the back of somebody's SUV with a laptop and some bus-powered drives to some of the the biggest productions the RED ONE has seen to date. The nature of being a "union DIT" does not guarantee that everything will be huge and the work will keep coming.

Should you join the union to increase the size of the jobs you do? To me, it didn't really work that way. I joined the union when I was approached by the union to help teach the local 600 RED ONE camera trainings - they got my number through Matt Uhry. Did joining the union raise me to a level where bigger jobs started coming in? Nah. I'd been doing union and non-union jobs with the RED ONE from the day it shipped... big and small. And you know what? I'll keep doing big/small/union/non jobs as long as I'm in this game. The work brought the union, not the other way around. Just make sure your union hours get banked whether you're in or not. My healthcare activated just a few weeks after I joined.

Being in 600 is a lot of great things, but at the end of the day... the jobs will come from the people you know and the people who trust you. If you have the knowledge and the experience, more work will come. But the job requires a tremendous amount of knowledge, particularly as things get bigger, faster and more expensive. When overtime costs production $1,000 a minute, there's never any room for "I don't know, it's never done this before..."... even if it never has done that before! :) If there's a RED question you can't answer, a technology you don't understand or a problem you can't at least try to fix... there's more learning to be done. I'm still learning things ever day.

I won't touch on jurisdiction, but I'm obviously on the 600 side of things. I agree with Eric - if you want to work with the camera, join camera.

One thing to beware of: as Eric said, the cost of entry is high. It's not just the ~$8,000 to get into the union plus dues. It's the gear cost. I learned a long time ago that a few MacBook Pros just don't cut it for larger shows - commercials or otherwise. I could've bought two or three REDs for the cost of my current DIT kit. I was able to build it up over time, yes, but there was still a day when I dropped 20 grand on gear to make that major jump. Every day I come up with a new way to do something better or faster. A thousand here, a thousand there... it adds up quickly. I don't know if my setup is big or small compared to Eric's, Ryan's, etc... but it's always done the trick for me.

So if you're really looking to become a DIT for the long haul... and you've got the mind for it... go for it. There's a huge need for some more really great DITs out there. I can think of fewer than 10 DITs that I really really trust - whether by experience or reputation - with the RED ONE on a major set. But work up there slowly. Get the knowledge, get the experience, meet the people and try to grow some facial hair. :) The work, reputation - and maybe even day rate - will all follow suit.
 
Brook Willard said:
When overtime costs production $1,000 a minute, there's never any room for "I don't know, it's never done this before..."... even if it never has done that before! :) If there's a RED question you can't answer, a technology you don't understand or a problem you can't at least try to fix... there's more learning to be done. I'm still learning things ever day.
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Ain't that the truth. Being quick on your feet and providing a sense of calm on set is really key. And you're right, the learning never stops. Especially when things are moving this fast.
 
Brook Willard said:
I learned a long time ago that a few MacBook Pros just don't cut it for larger shows - commercials or otherwise. I could've bought two or three REDs for the cost of my current DIT kit. I was able to build it up over time, yes, but there was still a day when I dropped 20 grand on gear to make that major jump. Every day I come up with a new way to do something better or faster. A thousand here, a thousand there... it adds up quickly. I don't know if my setup is big or small compared to Eric's, Ryan's, etc... but it's always done the trick for me.
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Hey Brook,
I've always really respected your posts here, and obviously you do good work, so I'm dying to know what is in your DIT kit outside of "a few MacBook Pros"? If you don't want to reveal trade secrets that's understandable, but as a DIT that works on smaller scale projects, I'd love to know what is required to play with the big boys.

Thanks,
 
Sean Rawls said:
Hey Brook,
I've always really respected your posts here, and obviously you do good work, so I'm dying to know what is in your DIT kit outside of "a few MacBook Pros"? If you don't want to reveal trade secrets that's understandable, but as a DIT that works on smaller scale projects, I'd love to know what is required to play with the big boys.

Thanks,
Click to expand...

Think horsepower, and safety nets and it will probably give you an idea. Quite honestly, Macbook Pros are a bit underpowered for some tasks. And they don't have as much flexibility in terms of I/O.
 
Again, just a note on the way current jurisdiction is defined by the Locals (whether it is being adhered to or not):

DIT (Digital Imaging Technician) is by definition the engineer who works with Live Signals and "paints" and matches the Camera(s) and is under the Local 600 contract. This is not currently defined as someone who is doing "color grading" with clips that have already been transfered. The term also has been used loosely by people doing Data Capture work, but it is not accurate.

On-Set "File Transfer" is not really defined by any of the Locals in their CBAs yet, so it is not as much of an issue for those doing specifically that work. The two jobs that often times are additionally asked of someone doing File Transfers / Backup, however, are "Painting the Camera" (even though it is RAW) by way of dialing in values onboard or generating LUTs (600 DIT) and/or Playing Back transferred files (footage) for the DP, Director, etc. (695 Playback Operator / Video Assist)

Playback of Footage on set in any capacity (whether it be Recorded on Camera and transfered as files and played back for the DP, or Recorded Off-Camera and played back (such as a Video Assist Operator) are clearly defined under the Local 695 contract. [note: This does not cover the Data Capture Engineer's examination of the footage for his/herself for verification purposes only.]

So, ideally, it would benefit people wanting to do this work to hold both Union Cards (currently), in case they are asked to do both of these other tasks in addition to Data Capture.

(File Transfer + On-Camera Color Painting = Local 600 DIT)
(File Transfer + On-Set Playback = Local 695 Playback Operator)
(File Transfer + On-Camera Color Painting + On-Set Playback = Local 600 & 695 Member)

As mentioned before, a lot of this needs to be worked out since there is overlap of both the Data Capture / DIT (Colorist) / Playback jobs. Most likely, these separate positions will merge under one Union, but currently, that is the definition as I understand it.

Since File Transfer and Verification is not clearly defined at this time, the important thing to remember is if you are working on a Union show, be aware of these boundaries until they are settled by the Locals. Ask what the job requirements are before accepting the work and know what you are getting into, since each job has many layers of complexity and is not as simple as you might think.

I'm looking forward to this all getting worked out as soon as possible. :-)
 
i always enjoy the producers who try and skimp on the DIT rate..

some people just dont understand how valuable a good DIT is...
if you have some kid from college who has worked with a red one a few times and claims to be a DIT and accepts the 350/day rate.. then the production has a good chance of shit hitting the fan.
 
Have any of you heard of the digital loader position in 600? is this meant to be used in lieu of a DIT, or in addition to a DIT? seems like my client wants to have me handle everything but grading, although we will create a couple of looks in prep to shoot with. what are the thoughts on this type of crossover?
 
So what are the data skills requirements for a DIT/DCE?

How are they certified? Is this field so new that everything is constantly changing?

I'm also wondering if the tools are being standardized or everyone just uses what works for them.

I started in scanning and recording back in mid 90s which also included data management. Now I just do data management. I just learned on the job, no IT background, just film school. It helped that I wasn't afraid of the computer and was willing to learn things on my own.
 
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