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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New Article About Red One and Rentals

Christian Munoz D

Christian Munoz D

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USA-Chile-Worldwide ----Red One & Epic Owner----
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That's exactly the risk that every dop or enthousiast would like to buy a R1 for themselves, and to be honest it's quiet affordable, but you should still consider some things...

You definately need some storage to get away with the footage and have a safe backup , and you'd need a heavy workhorse to get these files edited, it depends on the mass of jobs you handle , but personally i suppose for the mass out there it's still better to rent on a job basis , depending on what clients ask.
 
Good article. He's saying things that people are afraid to say here: that some of the people who bought the camera expecting to get rich on rentals are now seeing the effects of supply and demand resulting in lower rental prices.
The camera however does allow Dp's to own their own camera (myself included) and occasionally make some money on a rental. I say occasionally because it's not always the best camera for the job. I shot a commercial on mine yesterday and it looked amazing but tomorrow I'm using 2 varicams as I have to shoot 20 people and it's a fast turnaround.I didn't even suggest the red for this job.
 
Great article. We're not in the rental business, but we often secure access to other Reds while we are on location out of town - just in case we break down - and the prices have dropped. It makes sense. Fortunately, it doesn't make the camera any less valuable in the hands of a good dp.

Nick.
 
Nice read, thanks for sharing.

I agree inn certain aspects of his opinion and how He sees the RED cameras, but must disagree when He says that RED Digital Cinema Company, intent was to only empower the Owner/operators, to me it is no so, as the Rental houses do have a need of more cameras, way too many times I have been part of projects which have been delayed so long so many times for luck of cameras, well no longer did I heard anything like this in the past year.

The fact that RED has been such a susses is a different story and that many have purchase cameras to profit in the rental business even not been a rental company, that is one main issue there.

If all the private entities would have purchase the RED ONEs for them selves and left the rental business to rental houses, there will be a better market and far less saturated.

But every one has the right to do what the want, look at the housing market crash caused mainly by speculators, well do we talk about RED/speculators here? :)

ciao




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The RED market's BEEN flooded for the longest time already and it's only going to get worse.....

The only way to bring in business is either to have the best toys at the best price, or to be a GREAT ARTIST that entices rentals via his/her talent i.e. a great DP or DIT.

You can't just own a RED anymore, you need the talent to back it up if you plan on making a business out of it.

I actually like it this way! =)
 
Alexander Nikishin said:
The RED market's BEEN flooded for the longest time already and it's only going to get worse.....

The only way to bring in business is either to have the best toys at the best price, or to be a GREAT ARTIST that entices rentals via his/her talent i.e. a great DP or DIT.

You can't just own a RED anymore, you need the talent to back it up if you plan on making a business out of it.

I actually like it this way! =)
Click to expand...

This is what I love about having a RED camera, you can do a couple different jobs and get a rental out of it. I've been a Director, DP, DIT and AC on shows all using my gear. So its great for people that want to sell their skills. Plus its great to have if your into selling stock footage. I like being able to go out when I feel like it to get shots.
 
nice article...albeit a little depressing.

The point they make that Red doesn't care about the glut of camera's creating hardship for owners is a little like blaming Jesus for not providing porta-loos when he fed thousands on loaves & fishes...and yes I know it's only a story.

One other thing the article talks about is that everyone is looking for the lowest price. I think the market is a bit more complex.
Do people just look for the lowest price when they require a camera package?
Although a flood of camera will add a glut of camera packages at all levels I suppose.

the other thing to consider is there is only so much budget to go round for video/film production and adding 5000 Red cameras whose predesessors were worth $100K and hired out at $1500/day to the market doesn't mean you'll still get that rate. We all think that the productions will push their camera package outlay to befit the camera and not the production budget.
Dave
 
The future

The future

When Scarlet and Epic will show up the market will be more down to earth.
I don't think so many people will buy the Epic, and the Scarlet, for a few reasons:
1. Many people have already put their money on the Red. Many, out of them, aren't going to see, if see at all, the return from it by the time the Epic will be out. So they will not jump into another investment so quickly.
2. The recession is here, income drops and not so many people will have the capital or the credit to buy the Epic.
3. Naturally, after such a tsunami of cameras sale there is a low point in sales.
I thought it would have been wise for Red not to sell more than 2000 units of Red One, using this platform to lever their next generations of cameras.
Red choose otherwise and they maybe right.
If more than 5000 units of Red One were sold I think the numbers of Epic will drop to around 1000 while Scarlet will be around the 2000-3000.
But, what do I know. There are people which sales prediction is their profession, they just may charge a few hundreds thousands of USD for it.
Will it help the rental market, i don't know. The chaos is already here and will stay for awhile. I predict some small and big rental houses will find themselves out of business during 2009.
 
I think it will only be 1000. . .

Stephen
 
I think it depends on how much exactly the upgrade to Epic X will be for Red One owners. Thankfully Red has reduced that amount with the Epic X option.

How much more than the $10500 Epic X upgrade cost will we need to spend for a fully functionnal Epic? Looks like we'll need to add new batteries, charger, handheld system. What else?
 
gdv said:
When Scarlet and Epic will show up the market will be more down to earth.
I don't think so many people will buy the Epic, and the Scarlet, for a few reasons:
1. Many people have already put their money on the Red. Many, out of them, aren't going to see, if see at all, the return from it by the time the Epic will be out. So they will not jump into another investment so quickly.
2. The recession is here, income drops and not so many people will have the capital or the credit to buy the Epic.
3. Naturally, after such a tsunami of cameras sale there is a low point in sales.
I thought it would have been wise for Red not to sell more than 2000 units of Red One, using this platform to lever their next generations of cameras.
Red choose otherwise and they maybe right.
If more than 5000 units of Red One were sold I think the numbers of Epic will drop to around 1000 while Scarlet will be around the 2000-3000.
But, what do I know. There are people which sales prediction is their profession, they just may charge a few hundreds thousands of USD for it.
Will it help the rental market, i don't know. The chaos is already here and will stay for awhile. I predict some small and big rental houses will find themselves out of business during 2009.
Click to expand...


Are you kidding, the Scarlets are going to sell in the tens of thousands. With the advent of 3d at home, new view sonic 3d monitors and projectors, Nvidia glasses, I think every tom dick and harry is going to want a stereo rigged scarlet and think live action stereo 3d will be huge for lower end media content . 2009 and 2010 will be huge mad scramble for stereo 3d. The Form factor price points and functionality are simply too irresistible. The Scarlet range will cover every aspect of the food chain, and I have no doubt that the adult entertainment industry will be clamoring for 3d, in that sector alone easily 5000 Scarlets.

In a recession the middle market tends to shrink, high end stays the same and low end of the market grows. I don’t think there will be any slow down in the demand for media content. Epic and Scarlet are really on the money.

However you might be right about some of the rental houses.
 
weirdcrew said:
I think the Epic is the time when the rental houses will make it's push. Talked to one large rental house who said they already had an order for 3, whatever that meant.
Click to expand...


We will see what the competitors will bring. Imagine Arri creates a D235. Don't you think that rentalhouses and DOPs will embrace such a camera more than a Red Epic? Probably won't happen and you'll be right...

Hans
 
Eric/VERAXYZ said:
Are you kidding, the Scarlets are going to sell in the tens of thousands. With the advent of 3d at home, new view sonic 3d monitors and projectors, Nvidia glasses, I think every tom dick and harry is going to want a stereo rigged scarlet and think live action stereo 3d will be huge for lower end media content . 2009 and 2010 will be huge mad scramble for stereo 3d. The Form factor price points and functionality are simply too irresistible. The Scarlet range will cover every aspect of the food chain, and I have no doubt that the adult entertainment industry will be clamoring for 3d, in that sector alone easily 5000 Scarlets.
Click to expand...

Eric I kinda have to agree with you, 3d is EVERYWHERE (my DLP I bought a year ago is 3D ready, all I have to do is buy the glasses) plus the technology is getting close for 3d technology without hte glasses (come on, look at CES thusfar, most new TV's are 3d ready, plus gaming monitors and LCD's are now down to 2ms responce times for 24" full HD and under $800. 3d is the future and it will be here faster than we know. With the NFL testing it, European channels looking to broacast in it, the adult entertainment industry will be all over it (considering the price point of 2 scarlets). Plus look at shows like top gear, who wouldn't want a vanquish "flying past" them?
 
Imagine Jeremy Clarkson in 3d (pretty scarry) but I think they could have a lot of fun with it!
 
Eric/VERAXYZ said:
The Scarlet range will cover every aspect of the food chain, and I have no doubt that the adult entertainment industry will be clamoring for 3d, in that sector alone easily 5000 Scarlets.
Click to expand...

Not a chance. The adult entertainment industry will collapse before the end of 2009.
 
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