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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Automatically Sync dual system sound

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Philip Hodgetts

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Hi everyone,

Long time reader, occasional poster, but thought I'd give you all advance notice. My company has finished Sync-N-Link: a new piece of software that works with FCP XML to automatically sync dailies based on matching TC. Export bins as XML, get back bins with synched clips in the same bin structure. You can choose which tracks to include from the multitrack files or sync them all.

http://www.theassistanteditor.com/Sync-N-Link/

OR, edit with camera audio and when you're done with picture (or almost done), send the Sequence(s) to Sync-N-Link and get back a duplicate sequence that has the camera audio replaced with the matching multitrack.

Both workflows save days of tedious work.

Officially we're launching at the start of 09, but it's on sale now. Regular price will be $495 but until January 31st, it's $395. Details at the website or contact me directly philip@intelligentassistance.com

Cheers and thanks for the bandwidth.

Philip
 
Looking forward to checking it out. Thanks
 
sequenceLiner is another useful product, but very different. When Andreas shared an early beta of sequenceLiner with me we had correspondence on the different roles. sequenceLiner will lay out your clips in a sequence lining up the clip TC with the Sequence TC. A good way of checking coverage and seeing how productive the day way.

OTOH, Sync-N-Link will create merged clips ahead of editing (automatically trimming to only the common area of video and audio) or take the fully edited sequence and replace camera audio with multitrack audio.

All good tools but for different purposes.

Philip
 
Philip Hodgetts said:
or take the fully edited sequence and replace camera audio with multitrack audio.

Philip
Click to expand...

Sold.

Philip - you should STRONGLY recommend that folks render out self-contained QTs for edit after merging/linking - editing long-form in FCP with "merged" files is the KISS OF DEATH. Several nasty bugs there - the big one is that the trim window will often fail to work correctly.

Editing with 2 tracks of audio from a self-contained QT and then being able to ADD all the tracks from original BWF inside FCP timeline is something I want badly.
 
Sound like a great tool - one that's been needed for a long time. Any chance of a demo version?
 
Mark,

We're making linked clips not merged clips (although in XML there is no such thing as a merged clip as it turns out). I've not heard of the problems you refer to Mark, perhaps you could send me some links I can check out and explore.

Right now it's an either/or workflow: either sync ahead of editorial, or sync the edited camera audio. Work with camera audio throughout editorial, and then use Sync-N-Link to replace that track(s) with full multitrack toward the end of editorial before pass off to audio.

We think the hybrid workflow is doable - link to selected tracks ahead of editorial and then replace those with the full multi-track - but we haven't done sufficient testing so we're not making that claim now.

Philip
 
Roland,

Demo version is very tricky for us. I appreciate the desire to test but here's our dilemma. Since you don't need Sync-N-Link until the end, if you work with camera audio, if there as a trail or demo version you could download that when you're done with editorial, pass your edited sequences through Sync-N-Link and then let the trial elapse. You've had all the benefit, and we don't get the sale.

I'm open to all ideas on how we could provide a trial that didn't kill our business. :) Seriously, we'd like a solution but haven't been able to work around the above mentioned problem.

Philip
 
Should have added: We always provide a 100% satisfaction guarantee, so if you purchased and decided it didn't work for you or wasn't what you expected we'll refund when you deactivate the software. All I ask is that you tell us what you expected and where let you down or how we could have made it better.

Philip
 
Yeah, sorry, didn't think about that. Trial version would be a bad idea. 100% satisfaction guarantee works for me.

Next project I do with double system sound, I'll be making a purchase from you guys.

Thanks for developing this software.
 
Philip Hodgetts said:
Mark,

We're making linked clips not merged clips (although in XML there is no such thing as a merged clip as it turns out). I've not heard of the problems you refer to Mark, perhaps you could send me some links I can check out and explore.

Right now it's an either/or workflow: either sync ahead of editorial, or sync the edited camera audio. Work with camera audio throughout editorial, and then use Sync-N-Link to replace that track(s) with full multitrack toward the end of editorial before pass off to audio.

We think the hybrid workflow is doable - link to selected tracks ahead of editorial and then replace those with the full multi-track - but we haven't done sufficient testing so we're not making that claim now.

Philip
Click to expand...

Philip -

I'm gonna buy your app on Monday when I am back in the office - at that price - if it can save me one hour on any project it's free to me.

here's an example of a bug/issue - which we have also hit several time when editing with linked files -

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=8146195

As long as I can batch export new clips after your app links the files - I am happy.

If, after editing, I can then REPLACE, or ADD multitrack audio from the BWF directly into the FCP timeline ... well then I am super happy.

We've seen other bugs cutting in FCP with linked/merged clips - typically things start to go bad when the project is larger - like a feature.
 
Hi Mark,

There's no reason why you can't export the self contained clips, however I don't know how we'll process them from the Sequence. That's not a workflow we tested. (We're also not doing merged clips, just linked btw - we did some checking after the earlier post.)

At the moment we're saying that with Sync-N-Link you can sync clips ahead of editorial *or* use camera audio for editorial and replace it after. The combined workflow (including working with exported self contained clips) is something we want to support but haven't been able to locate test projects to, well, test with.

Just attempting to keep expectations to what we know we can do, and share what we hope to do. :)

Philip
 
Philip Hodgetts said:
Hi Mark,

There's no reason why you can't export the self contained clips, however I don't know how we'll process them from the Sequence.
Philip
Click to expand...

couldn't they be batch exported from the bin right after running your app?

I'm not sure if I'm clear yet what your edit first/sync later workflow does -

"With the cut first/sync later workflow, the edited sequences can be exported (via Final Cut Pro XML) to Sync-N-Link for FCP. The camera audio will be replaced with the full set of channels from the multi-track recording. Sequences are processed one-at-a-time so that lock off can happen per sequence or reel."

so ... let's say I cut with prores quicktimes with 2 channel audio made in Redrushes - edit away then lock my reels - I can then run you app (with all my BWF in the bin) and it will replace my audio in the edited timeline with all the tracks from the BWF?
 
Mark,

Your last paragraph is exactly the workflow I described. (Embarrassingly, I can't seem to get the quote checkbox to active). Sync-N-Link will "replace my audio in the edited timeline with all the tracks from the BWF". Yes.

And yes, you could batch export immediately after running the app if you were synching before editing.

Philip
 
Philip Hodgetts said:
Mark,

Your last paragraph is exactly the workflow I described. (Embarrassingly, I can't seem to get the quote checkbox to active). Sync-N-Link will "replace my audio in the edited timeline with all the tracks from the BWF". Yes.

And yes, you could batch export immediately after running the app if you were synching before editing.

Philip
Click to expand...
Perfect. This is exactly what I need. I'll buy a license first thing Monday. Thanks!
 
Hi all,

As Mark and Philip mentioned my sequenceLiner - this is an easy way to line up both video and audio from a days production. It also allows to view or correct tc offsets of the different devices.

And yes Philip we are a bit competing with the auto-sync. I do have an app which is running fine here on some productions since some month, but I can't sell it till next year because I made a stupid contract. So Philip does have the better cards :)

The thing with dual sound is a bit more complicated than most people think.
First of all any audio or video recorded must somehow have the same timecode, that can be achieved by using a camera which supports free run TC (TOD), the audio HDR will do that anyway. Also the famous LockIt cam help there. One thing during the days production - when using free run tc - never shut down any of those devices.

It also depends heavily upon AV, V, A data came into Final Cut.
In case you captured AV linked files you can't get rid of the cam audio as it is still in the captured file and Final Cut will always keep that in mind - that might lead to some trouble at a later state of the project.
Also capturing AV data from the camera to different files is not such a big help as the referenced mov file still refers to the external audio - and Final Cut keeps that in mind as well.
So the save way would be to capture/transfer 2 times - one time for video, one time for audio. This is not a nice option, but save.

Another thing is to organize things within Final Cut. As video or audio may be transcoded the date is not reliable when tc is compared - there can be the same tc on any day. So keep your projects as clean as possible.

Doing sync and and replace cam audio with external audio or mix those does work fine within Final Cut - no problem as long everything stays online. If you need for ever reason to reconnect you'll get a problem as Final Cut sees the camera files with their original audio plus the external audio - and here you got a problem.

It gets even a bit more more complicated when you want to do multiclips. With multiclips and external audio you do have some options.

The easy one, which never happens - except you do by hand and make a batch export, is that all audio and video do have the same length and timecode . Then you can sync by Timecode or In. This works fine and reliable in any case.

Second option, if video tc matches, is to make subclips. But subclips are not really one of the strong features of Final Cut and will fail if you got into the offline-online trap.

Next is to match all clips included to a common in and out and then create a multiclip using the In option - this will work until you got into the offline-online trap.

So conclusion of this is: do what Mark said. Export all your clips as movies before you start the real edit - helps to sleep better and saves you lot of time in case something happens.

Just some thoughts
Andreas
 
I've got to say it because it's very likely nobody else will:

You do all know that Avid had all of this figured out over 15 years ago when they put AutoSync into the Media Composer, don't you?

Step 1: Load all of the picture clips into a bin.
Step 2: Load the corresponding audio clips (in the form of BWFs into the same bin)
Step 3: Select All. Choose "AutoSync" by time code, having already specified whether to truncate based on video or audio.
Step 4: Use the subclips that Avid has created to cut with.

Pretty simple.
 
Hi Philip:

Is this application only for syncing audio by matching TC or will it help with multi-camera video as well?

For example, I have a "live reality" project to edit that was shot with two time-code synced cameras. I'd like to just edit for camera A and then when I'm done, use your software to populate the second multi-camera track with the relevant footage and matching audio from Camera B. Then I could take one last pass and use FCP's quazi switching features to edit between cameras A and B but only where I've already edited for A. If your solution does not do that, could you make it do that?

Does anything else do that or is there a trick to accomplish that in FCP?

-shooter
 
I'm sure this program relies heavily on Camera + Sound Dept's Ability to keep Cameras Jammed to Recorder or vice versa, what sort of Methods to you have for Timecode That doesn't match? (Of Course I know What Happens) But what features do you have for dealing with One or Two Clips? I can do them manually, no problem, But what about a Log that an AE can go through and quickly link the remaining few.

IS there a feature that pulls out Clips that don't match and keeps them for Review or a Manual Link within your Program?

IS there a Preview of the Clips before the XML is remade? To be sure TC Matches? Just video of the Slate and a TC R below it is all I need.

IS there any way to Try the program? Limit the XML length, or Video Clips? I want to try this out to see if It can really save a lot of time.
 
mmost said:
I've got to say it because it's very likely nobody else will:

You do all know that Avid had all of this figured out over 15 years ago when they put AutoSync into the Media Composer, don't you?

Pretty simple.
Click to expand...

Absolutely! Avid did the first part of what Sync-N-Link can do 15 years ago. We set out to provide the same functionality for FCP users. However, we went much further than Avid, by allowing you to edit first with camera audio and *then* replace camera audio with your multi-track audio. AFAIK you can't do that with Avid. it's always a game of leapfrog :)

philip
 
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