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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Is the RED One ever going to be upgraded to the Monstro chip?

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ibloom said:
Just to clarify then the credit cannot then be put toward the FF35 ($35K)?

I.Bloom
Click to expand...

Sure it can... any EPIC, including the 645 and 617.

But hold that thought until the 3rd. Things are changing again... :-)

Jim
 
Jannard said:
Sure it can... any EPIC, including the 645 and 617.

But hold that thought until the 3rd. Things are changing again... :-)

Jim
Click to expand...

Jim, you just spilled the beans without meaning to. At least I'm willing to bet now. :devil:

Otherwise, all good news. I don't want any more freebies, sir. Just awesome cameras please.

Warm regards,
I.Bloom
 
Jannard said:
Sure it can... any EPIC, including the 645 and 617.

But hold that thought until the 3rd. Things are changing again... :-)

Jim
Click to expand...
Sweet! I think I am leaning towards the 617...
I'll wait till the 3rd and the way I see it, things will only get more interesting.
Happy Thanksgiving Jim!
 
ibloom said:
Jim, you just spilled the beans without meaning to. At least I'm willing to bet now. :devil:

Otherwise, all good news. I don't want any more freebies, sir. Just awesome cameras please.

Warm regards,
I.Bloom
Click to expand...

With JJ there is no "without meaning to".
 
Jannard said:
Sure it can... any EPIC, including the 645 and 617.

But hold that thought until the 3rd. Things are changing again... :-)

Jim
Click to expand...

Sounds like there's going to be a simplification of the models. I hope I'm right - the first time I glanced at the latest product line my gut told me there were too many brains.

Sure hope the 2/3" Scarlets get replaced by the S35 brains if that means more, and less expensive, lens options.
 
617 for $617?
Sounds reasonable...
 
Not sure what you are reading into what... you guys are too much!

Jim
 
Jim if it was up to me I'd make waaay too many suggestions, requests and assumptions that could either be money-saving or envelope pushing but this is your show and I am just enjoying the ride.
My #1333 has made me more than happy and by the looks of it Chapter 2 in the Game-Changer that is RED is going to be much more interesting.

A word to the wise;
When Jim says there will be an announcement on the 3rd, make sandwiches and take a few gallons of your favourite beverage and set up camp infront of your monitor from mid-day 2nd.
 
Jannard said:
Luis,

At 1st, we said that all R1 owners could trade in their RED ONE for full credit on a $40K EPIC. That still is true (although not a very good deal today).

Then, when the program changed, it was full credit on a $28K Epic... which is still true today.

If we change the program (as we have promised to do) we will need to figure out some creative way to reward our RED ONE customers for their loyalty and belief in the program. But it will not be something where RED loses money. I am sure you want RED to be financially healthy to continue to develop products for the future.

We will always give an advantage to our original RED ONE customers. And while it won't be in the form of free cameras, it will be in a very thoughtful way.

Jim
Click to expand...

Jim,

As a business person, I understand your line of thought. Actually I can relate to it very much: I do want a healthy Red Co. for years to come.

As a R1 owner, however, I am just asking to fulfill the implied or direct promises made to us, and I am offering a suggestion and/or requesting a path that I think will make feel your original believers of the "scam" that we are being taken care of.

Are we requesting a special treatment? Yes, we are!!! Why? Because the assumptions at the time of joining you are completely different from the new ones. Now, any R1 buyer knows Red's strategy, but when we bought it we did it based on the original premises presented to us.

And I know you will do something knowing how you have operated in the past. Basically, we do not want to be left behind after being the loyal clients base that have served you so well as a great advertisement strategy, while we are enjoying the great benefits and perks of being part of such strategy.

Respectfully,

Luis


PS

Maybe you do not remember, but I sent you an e-mail way before any kind of Red One rendering, and having a very basic website. I still keep the e-mail after all these years. And the reason to send it to you was because of my fascination toward your entire business strategy, which I wrote to you at that time that I thought it will be used as a model for near future business degrees.

I would love to correspond with you in private (I think that your e-mail address that I have does not work any more) since there are so many colleagues on this forum that do not understand why so many people are requesting something special for us, and call us names, use innuendoes on the postings, etc., which I think is basically stopping the flow of ideas that Red Co. has always appreciated from your original base. Even some of them are not Red One owners, or they sold theirs, but still post here with an authoritative and insulting attitude that can be intimidating for some people that are not used to handle, or even being part of conflicts.

My e-mail is public, so you can send your thoughts to me, if at any point you think I can be helpful in any way, shape or form...Just as I told you on that original e-mail years ago.
 
Jannard said:
Sure it can... any EPIC, including the 645 and 617.

But hold that thought until the 3rd. Things are changing again... :-)

Jim
Click to expand...
how long?.. till january 3rd?.. ehehehehehehe

edit
:poster_oops: jan 13rd.. or dec 23rd.. or yet till next nikon or canon press release.. :)
 
Nobody took a risk with Red...
As a customer I paid a no risk $1000 with an assurity of getting back $1100k back.

Red/Reduser doesn't owe me a thing...!!

Hell even without the camera I reckon I go my $1000 back on the forum alone.I love it. It's a great talking/reading here.

The camera....is of course more exciting.

If a walked away from the forum today would I feel Red/Reduser owed me anything for buying their camera?....You'll gotta be kidding!!
I've had a great time, got a good camera...

Loyality....how about if their was actually an cheaper/better alternative from a competitor.
now you're talking about loyality!!.Right now you've got no where else to go.
Please don't use the word as a bargaining chip because well, it's not true!

Red/Reduser guys, it's us that are indebted to you for this ride you're supplied us.

Now the future....are you going to stop with 2007 technology, always patching it up, nobbling future dreams and subsidising us 'loyal' buyers.
I hope not cos if you do you'll be over taken by next year.
I know it would be suicide to leave RedOne as you're company flagship for many reasons.
I laid out about $80K in the first year and expect to pay out about half that each year. Makes business sense, particularly if I wan't to pay for the kinds of technological leaps that Red can give me.
So to Red....full stream ahead. I paid 30% of what the camera was really worth in 2007 prices. If you maintain that figure against current competition prices, i'll keep buying.
But I'm not going to ask you for a 70% discount in the first year and then for my loyality, ask for a 80% discount the next year and so forth.
i'll be loyal alright, it just won't be by asking/manipulating you for huge disproportionate discounts to what the camera is worth or should earn me...
D
 
david farland said:
Nobody took a risk with Red...
As a customer I paid a no risk $1000 with an assurity of getting back $1100k back.

Red/Reduser doesn't owe me a thing...!!

Hell even without the camera I reckon I go my $1000 back on the forum alone.I love it. It's a great talking/reading here.

The camera....is of course more exciting.

If a walked away from the forum today would I feel Red/Reduser owed me anything for buying their camera?....You'll gotta be kidding!!
I've had a great time, got a good camera...

Loyality....how about if their was actually an cheaper/better alternative from a competitor.
now you're talking about loyality!!.Right now you've got no where else to go.
Please don't use the word as a bargaining chip because well, it's not true!

Red/Reduser guys, it's us that are indebted to you for this ride you're supplied us.

Now the future....are you going to stop with 2007 technology, always patching it up, nobbling future dreams and subsidising us 'loyal' buyers.
I hope not cos if you do you'll be over taken by next year.
I know it would be suicide to leave RedOne as you're company flagship for many reasons.
I laid out about $80K in the first year and expect to pay out about half that each year. Makes business sense, particularly if I wan't to pay for the kinds of technological leaps that Red can give me.
So to Red....full stream ahead. I paid 30% of what the camera was really worth in 2007 prices. If you maintain that figure against current competition prices, i'll keep buying.
But I'm not going to ask you for a 70% discount in the first year and then for my loyality, ask for a 80% discount the next year and so forth.
i'll be loyal alright, it just won't be by asking/manipulating you for huge disproportionate discounts to what the camera is worth or should earn me...
D
Click to expand...

David, David, David...:cold: :sarcasm:

Jim is more than a simple Sony executive. What you are talking about would be from a stereotyped company, not Red.:w00t:

Happy Thanks Giving!!:innocent:
 
Luis Otero said:
Cüneyt,

The agreement was and actually is very loud. You do not need to be part of the Red wagon then. Today you can find all over their web-site that Red's motto is: "Render Obsolescence Obsolete".

That is a profound promise and loud commitment!!!:shifty:
Click to expand...

Red has never made any promises.. except that things change.
 
Just came across an idea while reading this, Jim. Make another brain that just does what Red One is capable of today. Only allow people to replace their Red Ones with that new "brainized" Red One (call it Red Two if you want). Now you just rendered obsolescence obsolete.

You could even use some of the parts, such as the sensor, from the current Red One owners' Red Ones.

:detective2:
 
Luis Otero said:
David, David, David...:cold: :sarcasm:

Jim is more than a simple Sony executive. What you are talking about would be from a stereotyped company, not Red.:w00t:

Happy Thanks Giving!!:innocent:
Click to expand...

Luis, Luis, Luis.....

Reading this thread....
I feel sad you're turned Jim into 'whatever' YOU want...to obtain what you want...!
Good luck with you patently obvious manipulation of a guy and what he offered, to get whatever you can.

And all under the guise of co-business man, friend & moralist.

If you strip all that fluff away, what do you get...?
A guy shameless demanding everything in the world he can....

Please stop it..you're only embarrassing yourself and irritating everyone here.
Well may you say happy thanks giving Luis.
Dave,

ps: Luis, you sound like you are an okay fella...have a step back, take a walk and forget your present agenda. That might take a week. Appraise it all again. Jim may sometimes add his own spin to things and that in itself can confuse people. But i think you've a little bit skewed with you're demands here...Dave
 
Jim has stated (correct me if I am wrong, and subject to change with the 3rd announcement... but I would imagine would be considered at least comparable in some fasion):

  • Ability to upgrade RED One sensor to Mysterium X when S35 Epic begins shipping.
  • Ability to upgrade RED One sensor to Monstro sometime in 2010.
  • 100%, full trade in value on your RED One body to the EPIC Brain of your choice (which will have true upgrade any part modularity...) Don't forget almost all of your current RED One accessories will work with Scarlet/EPIC systems.
  • Keep your RED One, buy into a Scarlet system with 12% discount, just b/c you were one of the original customers.
  • The RED One may not be obsolescence obsolete, but the RED One customer certainly is.
You can stay with your RED One and upgrade sensors (not offered by anyone else that I'm aware of) for the "foreseeable future".... at least through 2010 and Monstro.

You can give your camera body back to RED and have ALL of your original 17.5k back to put towards purchase of an EPIC system.... Now, I can't think of anything that even comes close to this precedent.... What about that is not unprecedented, inclusive and does not embody obsolescence obsolete?

Asking for much more than what is (currently) being offered to RED One customers seems to be counterproductive not only to RED as a business, but to you as a RED One owner.

Certainly, one would not ask for RED to limit their technological advances and development so a vocal few can feel more secure in their purchase, as that would certainly not be obsolescence obsolete... Holding back technological advances is not part of the stated RED business model. That is the old norm offered by other companies. Making you buy a completely new camera every two years (with no credit, and no upgrade path of any kind) is part of the old business model offered by other companies.

Asking for much more than what is offered (it seems to me) would run the risk of RED no longer being a profitable business, which (again) would not be good for a RED customer. If they ain't making money, then they ain't staying in business and your camera becomes obsolete.

The way I look at it, RED has said... "hey guys... we have figured out a better way to move forward and more fully represent our mission statement of 'obsolescence obsolete' with a truly modular system that allows you to move up and down the line of products fluidly and allows you to move forward with us (without having to buy a completely new camera every few years) as our technology advances. You can certainly stick with what you've got, b/c it's a more than capable system and we will continue to support it, and continue to offer upgrades, including sensor upgrades. Or, you can give it back to us, and we will give you 100% of the dollars you put into our company to move into our new system of complete modularity."

Again, anything beyond what they are offering to their original RED One customers begins to run the risk of being counterproductive and would only serve to help ensure that you as a RED One customer would become obsolete.

I've not read any other real alternatives. The only concerns/gripes/complaints I've read so far, have only had implied solutions that would not serve the RED One customer as well as the above does in the long term.

RED One didn't get to the "obsolescence obsolete". The customers are still very much a part of that mission statement. The mission statement of "obsolescence obsolete" is not a RED One thing. It's a RED thing. It's a company wide thing. If it were just a RED One thing, it wouldn't really be obsolescence obsolete. It would be a death null (in my opinion) for RED as they would be crippling themselves from making advances at the pace that they are attempting, other companies would be allowed to "catch up" or offer other solutions that begin to compete on price/feature set. RED customers may begin to move away to those other solutions. RED goes away.... Keep it in perspective.

Build the cameras. :)

RED One was the first attempt. The DSMC systems are a big step in the direction of the mission statement that everyone is talking about here. The RED One customer has so many options it's ridiculous... Did you think that you would spend 17.5K once and never have to spend another dime, or what?

Imagine if a car company said "here buy this car, and in 3 years, you can give it back to us, and we will give you your full original purchase price towards the purchase of a new car".... Holy shit, is all I have to say... I begin to question the profitability of this choice that RED is giving to their customers.

Later,
Jason
 
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