Help: Lighting Package for 10-12k?

[Jason Ing]

I will be buying my personal lighting package soon. I just want more opinions from everyone before I pull the trigger on such a large sum for me. I am so tempted to keep it and save up for the epic, but quality lights are a good investment and I have a whole year to shoot projects I want to do.

I plan to light small/medium interiors and people. Exteriors I'll either use reflectors or rent, if need be. If I need to simulate sunlight coming in through a window, I have to rent a big gun anyway. I'm also planning on doing some green screen work (very small area, some digital art projects that will involve a single person I need to isolate for my post work).

I love the control of dedo lights and the quality and ergonomics of kino 4 banks.

So my current thought is:

$5322 Dedo 150 kit (4 lights)
$2643 Kino Kit (2 lights)

I have china balls to supplement soft light and fill.

I'm sort of interested in the barger lite for its flexible output and as a softlight. I think it runs 2-3K. Or a Kino Flo VistaBeam. I really like the throw and also the light control of the grid that you can pop in easily.

I'm also thinking of getting some cheap pars and those theatre type holders (I'll get some nice bounce boards for these). Another possibility is the Dedo 650 for $1200.

And I want to get light filters, gels, c-stands, sand bags, etc.

I know I can get a lot more lights for the price, but I'm really interested in the quality of light and not just having more lights. I don't like lowell lighting kits and open face lights for some reason. Hot fresnels I hope to replace with my dedos. I heard something about kool lights, but I'm not sure if they are as good as kinos.

I've used some of these lights before, but I'm no expert by far.

Oh yeah, maybe this is a big factor... control of the light is important because if I do work at home, my empty living room is only about 10x15 or so. I'm going to throw up some black material everywhere, but I can't have light blasting everywhere. (This is for my personal digital art projects).

Opinions? Know of any lights I should be considering?

Thanks!

P.S. Renting is out because I will be doing this the rest of my life... so in the long run, I'll save money if I get quality lights that last my lifetime.

 

[Yannick Hagman]

Not a bad idea and a better spend than on a camera. I did buy 3 dedos also. They are the best film filmequipment investment I made. I haven't used the Coollights, but they are not as sturdy as Kinos (if you speak about lifetime). Keep an eye on their new LED's though. Kinoflo has also some, but they are really expensive. $3,5k for 10x10 I believe (but are color diable). I did get some discount on dedos by buying used ones. If you want to spend 12k I definitely would buy a HMI to complement and a good hazer.

 

[Brandon Fraley]

Jason, my budget is more modest that yours, but I gotta give props to coollights. Comparatively they're dirt cheap, and at first glance they do the same job. It's true that they're not as rugged for the most part. Case in point, not 3 weeks after I bought the 150w HMI, the ballast gave up. However, I told Richard about it, he acknowledged it was a ballast failure and is sending me a new one.

Now, you spend a lot of money so that things like that don't happen in the first place, but if you're on a budget like mine, it's amazing the quality of tools he is offering for the price.

If you can afford the "good stuff" then go for it.

 

[Jason Ing]

Thanks for the info. I was considering an HMI, but most put me overbudget. I'll have to look around more.

The price of cool lights is tempting.

 

[Benjamin Rowland]

Have you heard anything about the Barger Lite? I've been curious about those.

 

[Jason Ing]

They seem really good. I've been researching and checked them out a few times at conventions. They're used by pros and you can find them on set like Desperate Housewives (there's an article somewhere about it... maybe on the barger site).

They're designed to work with chimera banks. you get a lot of light out of them and they light the banks evenly, so you can get a big source of soft light from them. and you can individually turn off the lamps so you can have different degrees of light. another plus is they work off of regular household power. i think the big one has three cords that you plug into the wall sockets.

i was considering supplementing my package with a barger, but i've recently found out about Vistabeam. i'm going to try and check it out here in los angeles.

 

[Benjamin Rowland]

Please get back to us with your thoughts on the Vistabeam. I just checked out the Kino page, and these seem to be quite a nice light.

Thanks for the info on the Barger.

All the best,
Ben Rowland

 

[Jim McKinney]

I'm going to chime in hear with my own 2 cents. As much as I love dedo lights, at half my budget, I would go another direction.

I would start with 1 or 2 used 1200 HMI's - preferably LTM's. Just because big guns are way out of your budget, doesn't mean these lights can't be extremely useful on daylight interiors (and night stuff as well). I'd go with some Kino's as well.

I would also try to piece out a small tungsten package. Having a china ball or two is fine, but consider some of the following light. I think source 4 leko lights are one of the best bangs for the buck and quite versatile. I'd get 1 or 2 open face lights. Not my favorite light, but great for bounce or heavy diffusion. (You can make a nice little box light out of some 2nd hand foamcore and diffusion.) Of course fresnels, especially tweenies. And a couple of dimmers would be helpful.

The big question is how much grip support? Even just 4 c-stands with a basic flag and bounce kit would be almost mandatory.

That reminds me of the filebox light that we used on a Bill Wages job a few years back. Take a cardboard file box or bankers box you can get at the Office Depot and line it with aluminum foil. Attach one or two edison bases to the bottom of it (using a 1 x 4 running down the other side) and wire it up to a plug. Now clip or velcro 216 or some other diffusion material to the top of the box. If you really want to get fancy (and it's a good idea), get some sort of honeycomb or grid to attach over that as well, so you don't throw light everywhere. All you need to rig it is a baby plate on the back side of that 1 x4. Throw on a hand dimmer and you have a rockin' light for night interiors.

The real key, too, is to avoid buying new. This equipment is for your own use so it shouldn't be a big deal that your package might have a few little quirks.

 

[John Fante]

owning vs. renting. Another view.

owning vs. renting. Another view.

Hi Jason, Why are you buying any lighting if you aren't yet familiar with it? You apparently live in LA. There are many lighting vendors there that will give you a survey of their gear, talk you through how to use the lights and for not very much money rent you a small truck over a weekend to get some time on the gear. Money well spent, if you find out which units you like and which you don't like.

You'll do yourself a big favor to understand the lights firsthand and what they can do before you buy anything. And surprise, surprise, you might find that in some cases, like for the costly HMI's, renting is better than owning for the most part.

There is a lot of good lighting gear available for rent in LA for relatively little money. You owe it to yourself to test this stuff out before you invest in something that might sit in your garage because it's not what you really needed.

 

[Michael Morlan]

My $0.02:

You could get a lot more mileage from your budget buying used Mole/ARRI fresnels and open-faces from eBay sellers. Add Source 4's for the reasons noted. Consider a Kino kit of some sort. Add brand new Matthews c-stands (their grip heads are the best IMHO.) Add Fotoflex soft boxes. Add miscellaneous grip from Modern Studio (better priced and just as good. Avoid their c-stands, love their light stands.)

Michael

 

[Richard Goodwin]

It's a good point, but if I were to rent every time I shot or wanted to explore something over years time, I would spend more the 10k. ...

Thanks!

Generally I have noticed that Lighting/Grip is relatively cheap to rent vs. Camera (1K for a base camera package = a lot of lighting). As an example, you can rent the Dedo kit for $150. That is around 35 rental days vs. owning. Prob. 35 weekends on a one day weekend rate. Or around 11 weeks on a 3 day week.

The other thing is if you want to experiment in personal projects then you are going to want to experiment with different lighting units too. You said it in a way when you mentioned how you don't like the look of Lowell open faced (I don't either). That points to the fact that different units have very different qualities. You will be locked into the qualities of the units you buy. It does not mean you cannot do a lot. But, that will be your look to a good degree. So part of your desire to experiment with different light qualities will be defeated

The thing is if you want a big cinema look or need to work in a big are these lights will not get you there. You will end up renting anyways. You cannot light a big space or studio space with these packages.

If you want to experiment with lighting patterns and setups you can go cheaper and save your money for renting bigger units when you need them. In LA there are an incredible amount of places to renting lighting and grip that are on the lower cost side (try wooden nickel). Establish some relationships with a few people/houses and you can prob. get amazing deals. Add shooing in the off season and it will get even better. There are a lot of good people out there who will work with you budget wise.

I want to say I have been going through the same set of choices (planning to build a RED package and basic equipment to shoot with). So, I have been thinking along the same lines. But, having produced shorts with others I found that lighting was usually one of our lower expenses. Even if your crew is unpaid time still costs, people only work long days for free so much, and there are a lot of other expenses that run day by day.

 

[Jason Ing]

Thanks for the info, guys. I'm looking into getting a handful of c-stands, so thanks for the recommendation.

Since this is my personal lighting, I'll be using it too often to rent. But I get what you mean. It is inevitable that I will have to rent. I'm looking for "core" lights that I can use in a lot of situations. Which is why I love the kino 4banks and dedos because I've worked with them before.

I just want to make sure there isn't something I'm missing or haven't heard about. Like those vistabeams I just found out about which I'll try to rent or, hopefully, get a loan for a try and buy. You're right, being in LA has perks.

And I'll definitely supplement with diy lights and will pick up some pars.

 

[Spinflight]

I have a Vista Beam 600. I use it on everything. Can't wait to get a second one. Between that and my Divas and an Arri kit you can't go wrong.

 

[Jason Ing]

Do they replace the 4banks you think? Which arri kit?

 

[Fran Kuhn]

Thanks for the info, guys. I'm looking into getting a handful of c-stands, so thanks for the recommendation.

Hi Jason,

Before you buy your stands, take a good look at American Grip in Sun Valley. I researched all the usual suppliers and found these guys have some of the best grip equipment. You see it on sets all the time--they often have blue anodized components. Much better than my Matthews stands IMO.

http://www.americangrip.com/

It won't hurt if you ask them what their cash discount is, either. Very reasonable prices.

-Fran

 

[CK Olsen]

Divas are my go to light as well...

Divas are my go to light as well...

I have a bunch of tungstens, but I find that the first light I tend to break out is the Diva 400... quick and easy to setup, dimmable, daylight or tungsten balance, soft right out of the box, and low power draw.
It's a real performer.

 

[jimhare]

I have a bunch of tungstens, but I find that the first light I tend to break out is the Diva 400... quick and easy to setup, dimmable, daylight or tungsten balance, soft right out of the box, and low power draw.
It's a real performer.

That's good to hear. I just bought a pair of Diva 400s (universal power model) and love them.

Supplement with a couple of LEDz Brute9s and have a nice little kit coming together.

Got the entire kit for under $4300 including all stands, hard case etc.

Would have been A LOT cheaper if I could go with 110v models, but compared to what the Divas alone cost in Australia, I'm very happy.

Would have been cheaper still to go with Cool Lights but I wanted a solid basic kit without compromise. I can add Cool Lights later.

 

[Spinflight]

Do they replace the 4banks you think? Which arri kit?

As far as the Arri kit. I have a 2k,1k, (2)650's and a 300. I find myself using my Diva 400's all the time over the arris. The dim feature and the soft light is priceless. Just watch the monitor and dial the lights in perfectly. I haven't used any 4 banks but the Vista beam is a beast. Huge soft light without all the amp draw. As a matter of fact a Honda 1000 generator can even light it. The vista beam has been the perfect outdoor light for me. Especially in a shaded area it has been my goto light. Gotta gives props to Kino for making a flo that is actually usable outside. It's a little heavy but it's built solid so it'll take some abuse. Like I said I can't wait to get another one.

 

[Jim Hoffman]

Would have been cheaper still to go with Cool Lights but I wanted a solid basic kit without compromise. I can add Cool Lights later.

I was waiting to try the Coolights but there has been another delay... sorry - can't wait any longer - I have to move on...

I think for me - I might go 4 bank over the Divas

 

[Jason Ing]

Thanks for the feedback Spinflight.

You said you're using the Diva over the arris. What do you think the Diva 400's are equivalent to in light (2k, 1k, 650?). Does the dim feature change the temp? I heard that the vista beam "dials" by turning off/on lamps one by one.

It sounds like a great concept of being able to "throw" soft light. Can the vista beam use household current?

thanks.