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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NEW WORKFLOW FOR EASY 2K MASTER from "M" proxies - THE ROWLAND WORKFLOW

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Benjamin Rowland

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I think I may have figured out a very easy way to end up with a 2K master using the "M" proxies generated by the camera.

UPDATE - SOME PEOPLE ARE HAVING PROBLEMS WITH THIS WORKFLOW RENDERING IMPROPERLY IN TIMELINES WITH MORE THAN ~30 CLIPS, OR IT COULD BE CAUSED BY CLIPS LARGER THAN 2GB, OR IT COULD BE USER ERROR. WHO KNOWS!? I'LL LOOK INTO THIS WHEN I CAN. THANKS.

The basics:
I cut a sequence in FCP using the "M" size proxies (1024x512) - they work well.
I sent that sequence to Color.
I changed the Project settings in Color to the 2K red dimensions (2048 x 1024).
I graded in Color and rendered to ProRes HQ with dimensions of 2048 x 1024 (2K).
From Color I used the "Send To Final Cut Pro" command.
This creates a new sequence in FCP with the rendered files connected.
In FCP, change the sequence settings of this new sequence to 2048 x 1024.
You now have a graded 2K sequence in FCP that you originally cut using "M" proxies. SOOO SIMPLE! I tried it, it works.
 
The reason this works is because Color seems to treat the camera generated proxies almost the same way it treats QT wrapped .r3d files in the latest update.

Please note: This workflow requires all of the latest updates.
 
Now the only piece of the puzzle missing is to be able to edit with transcoded proxies (I want to edit with Apple's AIC codec because the 1k proxies transcode faster than realtime!) and relink to the the regular proxies before you send to Color.

Hans is working on Clipfinder, I believe, to support this feature. That way you can edit off transcoded files, link back to the proxies and send to Color (I know I said that above, but I wanted to make sure everyone understood what I said.)

Things are REALLY looking up for posting RED footage!

Matthew
 
I spent the last 2 days trying a workaround as well. My main issue is going to Color and not having the 3k work in the mix.

Okay, the whole concept of using Color with FCP has been very alluring, but once I found out Color doesn't deal with 3k properly, or the same as 4k (4k is rendered out as 2k and 3k is rendered out as 1.5k) the attraction quickly wore off. I have a ton of 60fps 3k that needs to cut directly with 4k.

So, with a mission I set off to find a solution (I really should be doing other work right now), and after a million tests this is what I came up with (Note this is all done with H Proxies shot at 2:1):

4k can be sent to Color as is, then sent back to FCP.

For 3k - Put all the 3k edits on a seperate track, then cut/remove all 3k from track and past to a new timeline (select "yes" for new timeline to conform with what you are pasting 1536x738), send to Color.

In Color "Setup" "User Prefs" change Grading Proxy and Playback Proxy to Full Resolution, then in "Project Settings" change "Height" to 1556 (don't worry about width), then in "Geometry" scale to .75, render and send to FCP. In FCP open newly imported 3k timeline (you will notice in motion tab that clip size is set at 133%). Copy clip and paste in timeline considting of other 4k clips that have already come through Color. Open 3k clip in motion tab and adjust to 100%. 3k clip will now match 4k clip and original proxy edit before it went to Color.

Now, does this retain resolution? According to my tests no. 4k looked great but there was degradation in the 3k. Perhaps there is a better workaround or the 3k stuff continues to be converted to 1.5K and I'm just upresing that 1.5k after the fact. Was hoping it sources from the R3D and this would be the magical solution.
 
I don't have any 3K files, only some 4K that I got from an acquaintance. I know that 4K works well. I'll try to get some 3K files to see what I can figure out.
 
Rowland said:
I don't have any 3K files, only some 4K that I got from an acquaintance. I know that 4K works well. I'll try to get some 3K files to see what I can figure out.
Click to expand...

Cool, perhaps there's a way to improve/correct my workflow to get better results.
 
I don't get were is the problem with 3K. I have brought in Color three clips. One 4K, second 3K and last 2K. I have chosen 2K RED size preset in Color's project settings tab. everything I render out is 2K RED size. Where is problem with 1.5K?
 
The tests I just did shows that this workflow does NOT work for 3k:( I took a 3k proxy, sent it to color, resized to 1080p and rendered it out. It resized correctly, but a big portion of the image is black. I don't really know how to describe it better, other than it just doesn't work:(

Matthew
 
Cool...
 
Hey Rowland,

Great stuff! This worked so well, especially with single track short form. Just cut it down, grade, back you go. Whole thing took like 10 minutes!

It didn't occur to me that Color would just pick up the R3D from anything that resembled it. Thought it was all tied in with Log & Transfer.

Thanks for the tip!

Jim
 
Thanks Rowland. So am I right saying this is effectively BigT's workflow, but now taking advantage of the latest updates? I've been waiting for someone to sus this out and it appears you've done it for us all--cheers mate.
 
Holy shit! this seems to work! I was under the impression that you had to re-wrap the proxies, but nope, they open in color now!

Rowland said:
I changed the Project settings in Color to the 2K red dimensions (2048 x 1024).
Click to expand...

I'm a Color newb and can't figure out where to do this. Can anyone guide me?
 
ok, nevermind, found it.

BUT, can anyone tell me why my preview window is only showing a center crop of my shot?

EDIT: whoa, weird. When I changed the settings from the native 1024x512 to 2048x1024, I now get the whole image in preview. Wtf?
 
I was going to try this today. I was hoping since it would refence the R3D instead of the proxy, does it come out same quality as from the 2k proxies? I have video cut with the 1k proxies, and was thinking either relinking in FCP first or going straight through color?

Has anyone done some side-by-side image tests to prove 1K proxies are as good as the 2K proxies? If not, I'll do one tonight.
 
Red@BirnsAndSawyer said:
I was going to try this today. I was hoping since it would refence the R3D instead of the proxy, does it come out same quality as from the 2k proxies? I have video cut with the 1k proxies, and was thinking either relinking in FCP first or going straight through color?

Has anyone done some side-by-side image tests to prove 1K proxies are as good as the 2K proxies? If not, I'll do one tonight.
Click to expand...

I've sent _P proxies to Color and it's all the same. If it's a 4K R3D, it gets read as 2K. Color doesn't care which size proxy is sent to it, it reads the root R3D.
 
Nate, thanks for confirming that. Now I can quit working on a applescript tool to relink files. Also, you can just change your sequence settings in FCP before going to color, that way you don't mess with geometry or anything in color at all.

Chris: Yeah, proxies work just fine, same results as far as I can tell. See this thread:

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=22524&page=19
 
problem: After grading, I rendered the clips and sent back to FCP, but the FCP clips are not changing to the graded versions. I also, changed the sequence setting to the 2k res, but now I'm just looking at the old non graded M clips with a lot of black space around them.

Any tips?
 
Brandon said:
ok, nevermind, found it.

BUT, can anyone tell me why my preview window is only showing a center crop of my shot?

EDIT: whoa, weird. When I changed the settings from the native 1024x512 to 2048x1024, I now get the whole image in preview. Wtf?
Click to expand...

This is normal. FCP is telling Color that it's a 1024 x 512 project based on the M proxy. But Color automatically jumps to the 2k footage, hence, too big.

The workflow said to resize to 2k in Color, so you did the right thing.

Completely normal and part of the process.
 
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