Underwater Bubble Blowin' Users Group

[Frazier Nivens]

The MP-E 65 lens at 5X is quite long and extends way out. Great lens but it would be a tough one to house and work with UW.

But I would like to use my Sigma 50mm Macro and Sigma 150mm Macro. Those shouldn't be any problem at all.

Frazier Nivens, Ocean Imaging

 

[Michael Hastings]

The MP-E 65 lens at 5X is quite long and extends way out. Great lens but it would be a tough one to house and work with UW.

But I would like to use my Sigma 50mm Macro and Sigma 150mm Macro. Those shouldn't be any problem at all.

Frazier Nivens, Ocean Imaging

Basically all of the regular macros are easy to accommodate with the current setup.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Glass domes

Glass domes

Amund requested pictures of the glass dome and I realized I never posted when I said I would earlier.

These are 8" very high quality Japanese glass domes AR coated on the inside.
You simply put this front plate on rather than the regular frontplate. We did this since it was easier and about the same cost to make an entire frontplate rather than a port that would screw into the other plate and it is much thicker at the point of contact so stiffer - no flex - as any kind of flex is bad for a glass dome.

The first picture is of the inside of the frontplate with a regular backplate on top which shows how the edge of the frontplate goes past the OD of the housing. Also if you look you can see tapped holes that would be used to put a spacer in between if necessary to extend it out farther for a particular lens.

 

[Mark Thorpe]

No one said a housing solution for the MPE-65mm would be easy. I will be looking to take this on as a personal project as I seriously wish to have this lens in my UW shooting arsenal, that would be just ten colours of awesome!!!

Cheers all,
Mark.

 

[Frazier Nivens]

We can put that on our wish list Mark, I'd love to try that extreme macro lens out UW also. Love the little things as much as the big things. Do you have anything semi close to that now? PM me or email me, you know the address when you've time.

Best,
Frazier

 

[Pawel Achtel]

New Titanium Toy

New Titanium Toy

As Jim says: "Don't know what this is..." :biggrin:

BTW, how do you guys intend to pull focus on the MP-E 65? just curious.

 

[Mark Thorpe]

BTW, how do you guys intend to pull focus on the MP-E 65? just curious.

Pawel,
The MP-E65mm works on a fixed focal range per each imaging ratio between 1:1 and 5:1. Underwater one would have to have an EOS smart mount (one is coming its just a matter of time) to control Iris. Focusing will have to be done via the use of an enlarged version of a macro slider that would have to be designed and fitted to housing and controlled via gearing etc.

I am really convinced there could be a limited use for this lens underwater. Not something for everyday use but still it would allow a view into a world as yet possibly completely overlooked......

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Mark,

In my view, for focus knob to be practical, you need it at the rear section of the housing. I can't imagine having a knob at the front where the lens is.

The pictures above are renders of my new iris/focus controller with two GPIO triggers. The pulling is done with precision servo motors on a long throw focus gear ring (cine lenses).

And, you right, there are so many fascinating little critters that are not so much overlooked, but very difficult to film.

It is very challenging to shoot macro. My wide-angle shooting ratio underwater is close to 90%, whilst macro is maybe 10% or so. And, that's with rear focus control knob on an HDCAM camera.

 

[Mark Thorpe]

Pawel,
I am going to be using Aquatica coated flat ports on my housing which have one control cog for focus already. Can't see an issue with using that. The housing is not a long tube it is actually quite taller than long so the reach is not an issue whilst checking through EVF housing.

AFAIK, Gates, Aqua Video, Element Technica and others all have the Iris and Focusing gears toward the front section of their housings. Seems like whoever I would have gone with from these contenders then I would have had that same aesthetic.

My personal preference is macro filming. There is nothing I like more than the challenge of wondering which way the pygmy seahorse is going to twist and keep it in focus. The textures, complexities and diversity of the macro world are just so far more amazing to me than other marine critters. Not that I love them any less, but in my heart of hearts its macro through and through :biggrin:

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[Are Pilskog]

Hello!

I’ve been scrolling trough a lot of pages, and there are indeed a lot of good information in this thread.

I am working on an exiting underwater film project here in Noway, and in this regard it would be nice to have some help from the underwater bubblin blowin user group.

What do you guys think about putting a red on something like this:
http://www.seaeye.com/falcon.html
How are the possibilities to handle the red one remotely trough cables; guess I need cables for monitoring, for focus and aperture control. In this regard, will the Birger mount/aquavideo housing be a good solution. Are there any other solutions. And what are the maximum length such cables can work.

What about the new red cameras, Scarlet and Epic. Are there better solutions for these new cameras to work remotely. I guess the small Scarlet “fly-by-redwire” might be a good solution?

Apologize my poor English.

Best regards
Are

 

[Michael Hastings]

Pawel,

AFAIK, Gates, Aqua Video, Element Technica and others all have the Iris and Focusing gears toward the front section of their housings. Seems like whoever I would have gone with from these contenders then I would have had that same aesthetic.
Mark.

Of course the reason is that is where the lens is. With manual geared control you would need additional long shafts and gears to get to the back of the housings which complicates things and costs a lot more and makes it hard to work with multiple lenses, so you would probably opt for electric drive motors at that point which is more money, need room for the motor drives etc. All of this can be done but it costs a lot of time and therefore money to develop and usually people want to talk about it but nobody really steps up to the plate to get it done. AquaVideo's response to this was to at least make our frontplate so it is relatively easy for the end user to adapt a custom port setup to the housing by providing an additional o-ring (or x-ring) groove around the threaded port receptacle to make it easy to seal and predrilled and tapped holes to make it easy to attach. (I'll post some pics later.)

Hence, as a practical matter you get back to a smart mount solution for the Canon EF-S 60, EF100 and EF180 as the sweet spots. Further - specific to the MP-E 65 - what is the subject distance you have to get to achieve those high magnifications and can you realistically even get there underwater and finally (I know this is cheating a bit) but which of those subjects wouldn't you be better to do in an aquarium since at these distances and focal lengths the depth of field and field of view is so small you can't really tell the difference between in the wild and in a tank?

Are there some example shots of someone shooting this lens in a still setup? I would like to see them and know what there actual magnifications and distances were.

 

[Mark Thorpe]

Mike, 'tis late here but tomorrow I will post a shot of the still setup. I will also post an image of the focus chart comparisons for the respective ratio's.

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Are,

You will find some challenges in making the housing crush-proof to 500m. Having said that, my housing is crash-proof down to 500m.

Controlls need to be electronic, through GPIO and you have to use servos for lens control. This is what I have been using for yonks. Not cheap, but certainly the best solution.

Of course the reason is that is where the lens is. With manual geared control you would need additional long shafts and gears to get to the back of the housings which complicates things and costs a lot more and makes it hard to work with multiple lenses, so you would probably opt for electric drive motors at that point which is more money, need room for the motor drives etc. All of this can be done but it costs a lot of time and therefore money to develop and usually people want to talk about it but nobody really steps up to the plate to get it done.

hehehehe ...Some do get it done, not just talk about it like others. :sarcasm: I use custom servo motors. I make the gearing and motor controllers myself. By far the most robust and most versatile solution.

 

[Michael Hastings]

hehehehe ...Some do get it done, not just talk about it like others. :sarcasm: I use custom servo motors. I make the gearing and motor controllers myself. By far the most robust and most versatile solution.

Well, of course a few people do these very expensive custom things but maybe 1 or 2 every few years actually pay someone else to do it. I actually passed on one of those earlier this year with making a system for a major 3D project because I felt it would mean abusing the half dozen purchasers I had already committed to by taking their orders and their deposits for RED housings. I kick myself a little bit because with all of the mount delays I probably could have fit it in - but at the time it was the right thing to do.

The other way is doing it yourself as you are doing, but you know what kind of time and effort it takes and how much you would charge. Again, I've tried to leave those custom possibilities open on our base housing.

Are,

You will find some challenges in making the housing crush-proof to 500m. Having said that, my housing is crash-proof down to 500m.

Controlls need to be electronic, through GPIO and you have to use servos for lens control. This is what I have been using for yonks. Not cheap, but certainly the best solution.

Actually, I think I could modify our base housing with custom ports to accommodate 500 meters. Probably would work with the housing as is but worst case we would just leave off the 8 flats that we have machined on the housing to reduce the weight. My calculations (using the old-style formulas) show 1572 feet with a 3X safety factor with 1" aluminum endplates and the no flat cylinder with 3X to over 4000 feet so the flatted version would probably handle 1500 feet fine.

We already had two systems working with 200 foot umbilicals for remote control of focus, iris, and start/stop back in August. Longer cable lengths would probably be fairly easy with transceivers and fiber optic cables.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Well, of course a few people do these very expensive custom things but maybe 1 or 2 every few years actually pay someone else to do it.

The vast majority of cost is in R&D. The manufacturing and materials are not much more expensive than for mechanical gears. If you have a need for servo lens controls, contact me off line. We may be able to work out something that is cost-effective.

 

[Mark Thorpe]

Hey Mike,
As promised here are the images of the MPE65mm Macro Lens. The first image shows the focal working distances for each selected ratio.

The second image is just to show the lens extended which when at 5:1 is just a tad short of 10 inches. I don't have and concise measuring instruments here so have to be ballpark.

When you look at it though you could probably get away with using one port when shooting 2:1 or 1:1. The results I get at those ratios are some of the most pleasing. After that one tends to require a flat subject to get any decent sense of what the image is, not just the eyeball for example.

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[Are Pilskog]

Are,

You will find some challenges in making the housing crush-proof to 500m. Having said that, my housing is crash-proof down to 500m.

Well, actually I do not need to go down to 500 meter. I will probably not go deeper than 50-70 meter, about 200 feet. I would like to use the mini submarine to get undisturbed animal behaviour, like herring school behaviour, killer whales and seabirds diving.

What about monitoring, I guess the cables for LCD/viewfinder will have a maximum length far shorter than what I need?

Are

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Well, actually I do not need to go down to 500 meter. I will probably not go deeper than 50-70 meter, about 200 feet. I would like to use the mini submarine to get undisturbed animal behaviour, like herring school behaviour, killer whales and seabirds diving.

What about monitoring, I guess the cables for LCD/viewfinder will have a maximum length far shorter than what I need?

Are

Get a rebreather.

 

[Mark Thorpe]

Get a rebreather.

I'll second that one. Deeper doesn't mean better with a rebreather though, the benefits are evident, even just below the surface, once you make the switch. Glad I done it and now getting in the hours. Flying manual semi-closed at the moment.

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[Are Pilskog]

I've thought about rebreather and that may be a good solution in some situations. But I really do think I will get better undisturbed pictures by not diving into the water. Killer Whales for instance will either keep distance to human divers or there might be some curious individuals that will check you out. In other words not representative for theier normal behaviour. I think the mini submarin may be one of the best alternative to capture undisturbed natural behaviour.

Are