THE RICH AND THE POOR -(my new soap to be shot on RED)

[Paul Didier Mogg]

I read a post on here the other day that totally cracked me up. (Forgive me if I've embellished this somewhat)
An impoverished documentary film maker posted requesting some advice on lenses and traveling with his RED, and someone that I took to be from Hollywood replied quite seriously "Do you travel with a Focus Puller?"
After I got up off the floor, I realized that to many who are using this camera, this is an everyday, normal kind of thing to say. Also, to many, it's quite funny because we could never afford to travel with a paid focus puller in a hundred years.
...and in a moment it summarized for me in a nutshell the incredible thing that RED has done. On this forum you've got people involved in using this camera to make big budget multi-million dollar Hollywood blockbusters, rubbing shoulders (whether they like it or not), with people like me, who could hardly scrape together the money to pay for the body of the camera in order to shoot their next $15,000 dollar budget indie feature on Nikons at as high a quality as they can afford.
There are people on this forum who have Filter kits that cost more than my entire rig!!
What a funny world we live in.
It's going to be very interesting to watch how all this pans out. But I do hope that it brings people together in the spirit which RED (I am sure) intended. One of cooperation and learning, rather than elitism and separatism. I know I have already felt somewhat intimidated to post simplistic questions that anyone new to this camera might have. There's a lot of egos and protectionism of positions in this business. I do hope RED breaks down some of those barriers too, ...somehow I think they might.

All the best,

Moggy

 

[H. Demekos]

You’re right.

Lucky are we to shoot on RED, wathever the cost.
RED spirit to break the rules.

Anyone remember Francis Ford Coppola prophecy, after wining his “Palme d’or” (Cannes - 1979) ?
Unfortunately I lost the interview.

Rise, RED nation :weight_lift:

 

[Mark Thorpe]

I like your sense of camaraderie however you should read all threads before thinking elitism doesn't exist here. Why only a few days ago there were certain people ridiculing a Russian tripod system with quotes in the ilk of "Ohh, I wouldn't be seen dead with that rig" or "You would get laughed off of any pro set if you turned up with that". OK, the system may not have been up to scratch but the attitude of the negative posters was such that anyone defending the system was made to feel inferior. If that isn't elitism then I don't know what is.

Not everyone can aford the best and shouldn't be alienated if not able to keep up with the Jones'

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[kay madsen]

You’re right.

Lucky are we to shoot on RED, wathever the cost.
RED spirit to break the rules.

Anyone remember Francis Ford Coppola prophecy, after wining his “Palme d’or” (Cannes - 1979) ?
Unfortunately I lost the interview.

Rise, RED nation :weight_lift:

Here is an Interview with Coppola that sums up quite well what you were talking about...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zui4s0aLpr4

 

[hanselblat]

I read a post on here the other day that totally cracked me up. (Forgive me if I've embellished this somewhat)
An impoverished documentary film maker posted requesting some advice on lenses and traveling with his RED, and someone that I took to be from Hollywood replied quite seriously "Do you travel with a Focus Puller?"
After I got up off the floor, I realized that to many who are using this camera, this is an everyday, normal kind of thing to say. Also, to many, it's quite funny because we could never afford to travel with a paid focus puller in a hundred years.
...and in a moment it summarized for me in a nutshell the incredible thing that RED has done. On this forum you've got people involved in using this camera to make big budget multi-million dollar Hollywood blockbusters, rubbing shoulders (whether they like it or not), with people like me, who could hardly scrape together the money to pay for the body of the camera in order to shoot their next $15,000 dollar budget indie feature on Nikons at as high a quality as they can afford.
There are people on this forum who have Filter kits that cost more than my entire rig!!
What a funny world we live in.
It's going to be very interesting to watch how all this pans out. But I do hope that it brings people together in the spirit which RED (I am sure) intended. One of cooperation and learning, rather than elitism and separatism. I know I have already felt somewhat intimidated to post simplistic questions that anyone new to this camera might have. There's a lot of egos and protectionism of positions in this business. I do hope RED breaks down some of those barriers too, ...somehow I think they might.

All the best,

Moggy

hear hear

 

[REVO(lution)]

There is definitely a convergence of experience, talent, and passion within the RED community - as it should be. I think one of the key's to RED's success will be continuing to promote the idea that both beginning filmmakers and expert cinematographers can create beautiful images with their technology. That's what drew me to RED in the first place.

I'd love to see more opportunities for education and collaboration too. We're working on putting together a RED Demo Day in San Francisco that will allow more emerging filmmakers to get their hands on a RED, try it out, and learn from some expert cinematographers. I'd love to see more of these kinds of events going on that bring newbies and pros together to share in the RED experience.

 

[Obin Olson]

Protectionism is to protect ones lifeline to feeding the kids and paying the mortgage. Thats all most of it is for most film folks. nothing personal for the most part.

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

I like your sense of camaraderie however you should read all threads before thinking elitism doesn't exist here. Why only a few days ago there were certain people ridiculing a Russian tripod system with quotes in the ilk of "Ohh, I wouldn't be seen dead with that rig" or "You would get laughed off of any pro set if you turned up with that".

talking about a post I made where I showed a Stabilizing system for 1200 bucks..

the sentences you are quoting was between Mark from off hollywood and I.
truth is.. you would be laughed off a pro set with it.. and I wouldnt be caught dead with it, because it would simply break in two the min my 28lbs (light steadi set up) would touch it. I dont know how that makes us elitist???
I have no problem with the that particular rig if it CAN actually hold the weight it claimed.. but I would never take it on a pro set where reliability is a MUST.

didnt mean to be an elitist... just a realist..

 

[Ernesto Salvador]

Good Moggy, I like what you said, I'm sure it is mostly that way here.
There's been a lot of times when in the middle of a geeky thread someone starts a reply saying "excuse my ignorance but someone please tell me what is a.....(fill the blank)" and they get a gentle, informative response, then the techie discussion continues, I love it when that happens.

 

[H. Demekos]

Thanks for the link.
Not the good one, mais it's always good to hear the old Prophet.
Too bad his last movies were ... :wacko:

 

[Joel Kaye]

but I would never take it on a pro set where reliability is a MUST.

didnt mean to be an elitist... just a realist..

I think you might have just done it again. Not that I personally care particularly - but I think it's the idea that it takes a lot of expensive gear to call yourself a pro that some might find a little offensive.

I think there is a weird elitism that comes along with expensive stars and big daily budgets. The reality is a small team with a RED and a bit of gear can go make something along the lines of "Sideways" in terms of production quality for a tiny fraction of the 5 million they spent. Are they not pros if they whip out a $1200 steadicam (and it works)?

Legend has it, Jim Jarmusch was once asked when he was going to start making professional movies by a producer. In the producer's mind professional shoots started at $5 million. I think I'd classify that as elitist.

 

[ThydNostrum]

I read a post on here the other day that totally cracked me up. (Forgive me if I've embellished this somewhat)
An impoverished documentary film maker posted requesting some advice on lenses and traveling with his RED, and someone that I took to be from Hollywood replied quite seriously "Do you travel with a Focus Puller?"
After I got up off the floor, I realized that to many who are using this camera, this is an everyday, normal kind of thing to say. Also, to many, it's quite funny because we could never afford to travel with a paid focus puller in a hundred years.
...and in a moment it summarized for me in a nutshell the incredible thing that RED has done. On this forum you've got people involved in using this camera to make big budget multi-million dollar Hollywood blockbusters, rubbing shoulders (whether they like it or not), with people like me, who could hardly scrape together the money to pay for the body of the camera in order to shoot their next $15,000 dollar budget indie feature on Nikons at as high a quality as they can afford.
There are people on this forum who have Filter kits that cost more than my entire rig!!
What a funny world we live in.
It's going to be very interesting to watch how all this pans out. But I do hope that it brings people together in the spirit which RED (I am sure) intended. One of cooperation and learning, rather than elitism and separatism. I know I have already felt somewhat intimidated to post simplistic questions that anyone new to this camera might have. There's a lot of egos and protectionism of positions in this business. I do hope RED breaks down some of those barriers too, ...somehow I think they might.

All the best,

Moggy

People who make feature movies, make the movies with whichever camera they see fit for the purpose.
If they need a 4K camera they will grab a Panavision. If they need a 2K camera they will grab an ARRI.
They do not fret about the cost of these cameras. Because they rent the cameras.
The cost is part of the expense of making movie.

 

[Wayne D]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRS9cpOMYv0

gear is gear...the weak link is often the "nut on the end of it".

 

[Andrew Walker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRS9cpOMYv0

gear is gear...the weak link is often the "nut on the end of it".

That was a cool little video. I would like to see the final version wherever it might be.

Professionalism is in how you present yourself to a client and how smoothly you can get the job done...at least that's how I see it.

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

I think you might have just done it again. Not that I personally care particularly - but I think it's the idea that it takes a lot of expensive gear to call yourself a pro that some might find a little offensive.

im not arguing that the industry isnt gear happy.. and have feelings about certain brands over others..
Thats just how it is..

Im not saying I wouldnt use something like the cheap stabilizer..on a personal project..(all i can afford is that 1200 or 1400 stabilizer..)

Im just saying. I def wouldnt buy it.. and tell producers i have a really good steadicam and then show up with that.

An investor backed film will not gamble on a low budget cheap toy. You cant afford to dump a camera and be out of a camera and steadi system.

call it elitist.. if you want..
but If i was a producer.. I would not take the gamble (until i have proven the gear)

 

[hanselblat]

Maybe it's time to make it official that this is a unique forum, on which people come together from entirely different fields of work and experience; to such an extent that they're not always aware they're living in different worlds. Yesterday I met a guy who for 20.000 had produced a video for a band called Sound of ZZZ; it was excellent. Fiat bought the idea, had it remade for 500.000 pounds and made it into a car ad that was much less interesting than the original. This may sound corny, but let's be careful with our attitudes towards others. I hear people on the forum being condescending towards others because they may put their Reds on tripods less expensive than the camera. I myself come from the artworld. Artists will in the future become more important in video and film because they are making more and more video's and films; they usually do that with hardly any budget, but they do have the content, whereas, when I see the stuff that some people come up with who have machinery worth close to a hundred thousand, I think they badly need the input of creative people. In the meantime, people who technically start at the beginning should realise it's not very interesting for a veteran to spend much time explaining basic stuff; some patience on both sides would be okay

 

[kay madsen]

This forum consists of a bunch of camera nerds.

Some of them are professionals in a sense that they can make a living out of their ability to harness complex technology.

Some are aspiring indy filmmakers and storytellers who dream about putting their ideas on the big screen.

Some want to break into the industry and figure that this new camera could be a means to do that.

Some are in the industry somewhere and feel the need to catch up with the demand for cutting edge technology.

Some have discovered a new market and are keen to exploit it.

Some are in love with technology and want to learn all the ins and outs.

Some have the urge to be the authority on the hot topic in town.

Some just want to shoot and need to figure out how this new camera they bought works and roam the forum for helpful information.

Some are disciples of the church of RED, who praise their leader and worship the sacred cow.

Some are paid for being here.

Some think they are special because of whatever reasons. Some are ignorant. Some are stubborn. Some are desperate. Some are touchy. Some are pissed off.

Some are gracious and like to share their knowledge.

Some just like to communicate with their peers.

Some are all of the above or none or a mixture.

All of them have a computer at home or at work and spend too much time in front of it...

 

[Mark Thorpe]

I guess that kinda sums it up in a neat little package......

 

[M Hsu]

for having posted twice, that's well observed and very funny Kay.

I myself have found that the A-listers I've worked with have felt very little need to demean others to prove themselves, while the less talented ones are sometimes the meanest and the most boastful, especially the ones sitting on the sidelines.

Just look at David Mullen's humility, he sets an example for all of us.

Of course there are notable exceptions to that rule....

 

[Joel Kaye]

call it elitist.. if you want..
but If i was a producer.. I would not take the gamble (until i have proven the gear)

I agree with that.

I think it would be unprofessional to show up with unproven gear and represent it as something it's not. Frankly, showing up with an untested RED is unprofessional.

I just look at the end result. Whoever got it done reliably for less money is the better businessperson & artist to me.