Setting same Time of the Day to 7 Cameras

[gbalaji]

Is it possible to set the internal clock for 7 cameras equal and if yes how?

 

[Kenn Michael]

I would use something like a Denecke slate and JAM the 7 cameras to it. All 7 cameras should be frame accurate to each other until the battery is changed.

 

[gbalaji]

Thanks Kenn. We want to make use of Red "Time of the day" to sync 7 cameras which is currently on shoot.

I will post about the project in 2 days time.

I would like to know from Red Tech team about the option of setting same clock for 7 cameras.

 

[Brook Willard]

Kenn nailed it. Use the slate, a Lockit box, jam directly from sound... whatever it takes on your shoot.

I'm a big fan of the Denecke SB-T TCG/VSG.

 

[Brian F Kobylarz]

Lockit box solution

Lockit box solution

Whenever I need to manage more than a single device, my preference is using Ambient Lockit boxes - should you be considering second system audio at any point, Sound Devices recorders such as the 744T use Ambient electronics for their time code so your whole setup is running on the same clock. The lockit box has the advantage of providing trilevel sync. You should connect both the time code cable and the sync cable so that everything is running off the same crystal. Otherwise, if you use the internal sync of the camera with externally supplied time code, you will have an occasional glitch when they reclock to each other.

Another note about second system audio: The lockits allow you to cross sync different frame rates - so you can sync 23.976 timecode with 29.97 timecode (they jam at the top of each second). A common practice is to use the Sound Devices unit as the master time code source and jam sync the lockit to it. The lockit's frame rate is set via dip switches - allowing the cross sync.
Or you could add their Clockit Controller (Model ACC501) and you now have a master clock for your entire system. This unit can be calibrated to a GPS source (though I have never used this particular feature)

To your original question: If you are only worried about syncing the 7 cameras without audio, I would still use the dedicated lockits on each camera. I don't recall having seen a published spec on RED's time code electronics, but Ambient's spec related to time code drift is rated at under a half frame per day.

 

[gbalaji]

7 reds for a music concert in chennai

7 reds for a music concert in chennai

Shooting with 7 red one for a music concert in chennai, India.

More about the project in couple of days.

 

[Brent J. Craig]

A quick, easy and inexpensive way is to simply have a timecode slate open and rolling somewhere backstage or something. Make sure to shoot it after every battery change, then use that shot to calculate a timecode offset in post.

Not as convenient as 7 lockit boxes, but definitely the budget solution.

 

[Brian F Kobylarz]

Calculating offsets as a solution?

Calculating offsets as a solution?

Going with offsets will get you close, but not close enough to save your editor from having their name elevated on a liver transplant waiting list. The cost of figuring out offsets and drift of 7 cameras in post can rack up a few $$$. Not to mention the stress (BTW, Drop frame adds to brain malfunction)

It is not so much the offset calculations than the potential problem of drift between cameras over the course of the event - or between jam syncs. Cameras historically do not have the best internal clocks - so the after market is well established for accurate time code units. I've had to compensate for a couple of frames of drift between two Sony F900's recorded during one Anton Bauer battery cycle. At the start, they were synchronized - 40 minutes later, there was a measurable difference. Lessons like that prompted me to make the investment.

However, I may be entirely wrong about the internal clock electronics used by RED. Has this been tested? I would love to hear a spec from RED related to their time code drift tolerance over 24 hours. If it's within a few frames, you can probably get by. If the difference spreads over a greater number of frames, you may have to plan accordingly.

 

[Brent J. Craig]

... I would love to hear a spec from RED related to their time code drift tolerance over 24 hours. ...

Actually the relevant spec in most situations would be how much it drifts over 90 minutes - the length of time between battery changes. It has been well established that Red One's timecode does not survive reboots.

 

[J. Eric Camp]

You don't even need 7 locket boxes. Jam each camera once from the same box after each power cycle. Better yet. Since this is a concert, get the stationary cameras on house power. Then you only need to worry about re-jamming the floaters. I haven't been able to check EXTREMELY long cycle TC drift. But I can say that we have jammed at the head of a power cycle and been rock solid TC accurate at the end.

Or for the very clever there are ways to never shut the camera off.

 

[Brian F Kobylarz]

AC power, Drift

AC power, Drift

Good points. For conversational considerations;
As far as powering up and down, if the lockit box remained wth the camera, you don't need to worry about it.
I've used the Anton Bauer 4 battery sled for years to shoot time lapse - it is hot swappable so you can effectively stay powered up continuously. I have their Cine UCLX on order - that will power up the RED for an extended period. That would not work with the floaters, but as someone mentioned, there are many solutions for power.

When the comment was made about the rock solid TC experience, how many cameras were in use? How close were the serial numbers? Same build? I'd like to hear more about that.
If RED holds up as well as Ambient electronics then you could trust the AC powered units and jam the floaters as necessary (though I would probably still dedicate a lockit to each floater - that's easier than finding the guy with the sync box to rejam in a concert environment).

Since it is a concert, if there is access to the mix board, that would be the ideal location to hook up something like the 744T - or their new 8 channel version - or begin linking the units to get more tracks. This is where the earlier point about using the dip switches on the lockits to properly synchronize the different frame rates really comes into play.

 

[Michael Morlan]

Simpler and faster - especially for handheld cameras that can't run on house power - is to have a big timecode display in the venue somewhere. Simply point each camera at the display with each new record roll. Frame up the display periodically throughout and at the end of each roll before stopping as well to check for drift. Line up everything visually on the NLE later.

I remember seeing this technique for Van Halen's "1986 Tour." The six-foot SMPTE timecode displays hung above the left and right corners of the stage.

No muss, no fuss, no downtime re-syncing with every battery change.

RED One needs to have its internal clock permanently set with the external jam sync so sync can be maintained across power cycles.

Michael