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Birger Mount + Canon EF lenses = Which Matte-Box?

Peter Majtan

Peter Majtan

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Hi guys!

Any suggestions as to what matte-box to use with 35 mm still lenses, especially the Canon EF lenses on Birger Mount? Clip-on may create unwanted pressure on the Birger Mount, besides I don't know of any ring adapters to fit the outside of the Canon lenses (where each seams to have a different outside diameter even with the same inside filter diameter being identical).

Any suggestions will be much appreciated...

Cheers

Peter
 
Definitely look at the RedRock one. Otherwise, I'd wait and see what that new Arri one looks like, but not sure when it will arrive.
 
one of the nice things about using Canon lenses is that the are standard sizes and can accept screw on filters, if you are thinking about non-studio applications. Very little weight added and easily transported. And not expensive.

For studio applications, it might be worth waiting on the much-ballyhooed Arri inexpensive mattebox, not yet released, but you'll be able to purchase it from Abel, shortly. Some patience required.

I bought a Redrock and it's a good value but mostly for studio use, it's not so mobile. It's a little too flimsy, imho, to stand up to vigorous field work.

So I guess that I would ask, what is your preferred application for this mattebox? And how much are you willing/able to spend?
 
Peter Majtan said:
Any suggestions will be much appreciated...
Click to expand...

I rarely use a matte box with any of the nine Nikon and and two Canon lenses I regularly use on my RED One cameras. I simply use good screw-on filters - which those lenses were designed to be used with - a cost-effective and mobile solution to filtration on those lenses.

When needed I use a matte box and follow focus with the cine lenses I own and rent. I only use my matte box and follow focus when it is absolutely needed for the workflow of the particular shots I need to get.

In narrative cinema you'll almost always use a MB, but there is a huge array of shooting genres outside of narrative cinema that you can do with RED One - and a lot of them call for mobility, lowest weight possible, clearance in tight spaces, etc.

I'd say resist the urge (or peer pressure) to use a matte box with 35mm still lenses unless it is essential for the shots you are doing.

Think outside the (matte) box...
 
For still lenses I generally recommend that people get step up rings on all their glass to get them up to a common production-industry lens diameter, such as 80mm or 95mm. All the matteboxes out there have rear rings that will fir to these sizes.

Two notes:

- The front housings on still lenses often rotate as the focus is adjusted, which means that a clip-on mattebox can't be used. This can also be a major impediment to using a polarizer.
- Many still lenses will expand in length as focus is adjusted, which means that a mattebox with a bellows or foam back should be used to accommodate them.

Info coming soon on the Arri stuff. I promise!
 
Hi Meryem!

Thanks for the detailed reply.No offense to Nils or Jeff, but I have heard not too much great stuff when it comes to the build quality of the RedRock. I am sure it is great value for money, but my primary use is for documentary filming on wild locations around the world. So lots of travel and (ab)use in a harsh environments. Also I am after something light-weight. I absolutely adore the ARRI's LMB-5 clip-on, but the problem is that almost every Canon EF lens has a different font-end outside diameter even when the inside screw-in filter diameter is the same. Shooting outdoors will constantly expose me to direct sunlight, so a solid, yet lightweight and functional matte-box is a must. I am not sure how far will the original Canon hoods do the trick, since they are matched for full-frame 35 mm still sensor. I am right now investigating a modification to custom adjust the fronts of the full lens range I have to match common diameter that will be compatible with the LMB-5 or the LMB-15...
 
Gibby - more then the filters I am worried about the sun protection (i.e. sunshade and french-flags/side-flags) to prevent flaring...

Mitch, none of the fronts of the L-series lenses rotates - they are all fixed, so that should not be a problem. You are right about converting the lenses to a common diameter (which is exactly what I am investigating right now). On which exact model of the ARRI MB is the info coming for? I like the ARRI for two reasons - they last forever and You can always get a spare parts even after many years... But I am open to hear about any other solution with focus on solid build quality. I would not like to have a problems with my matte-box 3000 miles away and 3~4 miles above from my home with the nearest civilization several hours away, let alone authorized service center... :)
 
Info is coming on a brand new model which is fairly lightweight and less expensive compared to other Arri systems.
 
Peter Majtan said:
Thanks for the detailed reply.No offense to Nils or Jeff, but I have heard not too much great stuff when it comes to the build quality of the RedRock. I am sure it is great value for money, but my primary use is for documentary filming on wild locations around the world.
Click to expand...

I think the budget Redrock is better built than all the "midpriced" ($2-3k) products from Vocas and Chrosziel I've used. I can see how the high end Arris or Vocas MB450 may be even more sturdy, if you can afford them.

But I can see how a simpler clip-on design could be better for wilderness work. The Redrock has a lot of parts.

The new budget Arri is exciting, if they can build something better than Redrock for "only" twice the price.
 
I think that the LMB-5 a good option...I'm still mourning the kibosh that RED put on its mattebox program, because it looked ideal for exactly these types of applications, where weight, ruggedness, and flexibility are key.

I am guessing that the new Arri will be the way to go, if you need a mattebox in the field, because I believe they designed it (somewhat) around use with the EX-1, which is a very good field camera, so I'm hoping it will be the rugged, portable dream field mattebox.

I'm with Gibby, though, I only use one when there's no alternative. The 50-150mm RED lens has no threads and is an off-size lens element of 114mm, so while it is an awesome focal length for outdoors shooting, it is fast enough at T2.8 to need filtering...so you get this beautiful lightweight, portable lens and then have to cram the unwieldy mattebox and filters on it, to use it to its best effect. A little frustrating at times, for the outdoors shooter.
 
I'm all for less weight. But how do you do Gibby or others when stacking the threaded filters on your nikons and canons? In strong sunlight I guess you would need at least two filters stacked, one combined IR/UV (for example, B&W 77mm 486 Digital UV/IR Blocking Glass Filter Slim) plus the ND filter. Is there any vignetting or any other problems with this set up?
 
I just got an e-mail reply from Matthew Duclos (of DuclosLenses.com) who will be gearing all my L-series Canon lenses for use with manual follow-focus (pending the Birger knobs of course) and he would happily adjust the front of all my lenses to a single common diameter. This would allow me to use the LMB-5! Now all I have to do is to wait for the new ARRI MB to see whether it is the LMB-5 or the new kid on the block... :)

Thank You all for such a valuable feedback!

Mitch, the info can't come soon enough - I have to lock my financing this week... Can You at least let us know the top price cut out point of the new MB fitted with 2-stage, all four flags and clip-on ring adapter?

Thank You all once again, it is always a pleasure to be part of this community... :)
 
Peter Majtan said:
Gibby - more then the filters I am worried about the sun protection (i.e. sunshade and french-flags/side-flags) to prevent flaring...
Click to expand...

You don't use a matte box with sunshade and French flags with those same 35mm still lenses when you use them on your DSLR right? Each of those L series lenses has a built-in or screw on sunshade available which are quite effective in preventing flaring. Beyond that, RED One is almost identical technology as the Canon DSLR you use those L series lenses on (CMOS, etc.), it just shoots a wider variety of frame rates. There's no reason to treat RED One as a film camera unless you want to - its a DSLR on steroids, so 35mm still lenses can be used the same way as you'd use them on a DSLR if your workflow will allow it and a need for mobility dictates it is the best choice. When you use 35mm still lenses on RED, just use the normal precautions against flaring that you take when using those L series lenses on your Canon DSLR and you'll be fine.
 
The Redrock mattebox is a true no-brainer for the RED and still lenses. It is an incredible value AND it certainly held up well for our 3 month feature shoot. I think it is an amazing system. And it is THE steal of steals in matteboxes today.

Stephen
 
Carl Dieker said:
I'm all for less weight. But how do you do Gibby or others when stacking the threaded filters on your nikons and canons? In strong sunlight I guess you would need at least two filters stacked, one combined IR/UV (for example, B&W 77mm 486 Digital UV/IR Blocking Glass Filter Slim) plus the ND filter. Is there any vignetting or any other problems with this set up?
Click to expand...

I do not stack screw on filters. IMO that can lead to artifacts and problems. In my experience with extensive use of the multiple RED One cameras I've owned for over a year now, I have yet to have an IR problem of any kind. The huge majority of work I do is outdoors in natural light, and .9 ND is the strongest I ever have used, even when using RED's native ISO of 320. I have inexpensive, multicoated, screw-on ND filters for each of my 35mm still lenses in .3, .6. and .9 strengths, plus a good multi-coated screw-on polarizer for each lens. They're segregated into inexpensive filter folders by Tamrac, and labeled on the top of each lens pocket with the lens they are for, type of filter, and strength. Changing a filter is very fast.

My core production areas are adventure travel, wildlife, alternative sports, documentaries in various genres, music, lifestyle, cultures, stock footage in various genres, and many others. I do television programs, commercials, high-end business media, PSA's, and I'm in the middle of my first feature movie - but it not strictly narrative cinema. I rarely shoot wide open, thus no need for ND above .9. The large majority of my work is shot at f stops between f4 and f11.
 
Stephen Pruitt said:
The Redrock mattebox is a true no-brainer for the RED and still lenses. It is an incredible value AND it certainly held up well for our 3 month feature shoot. I think it is an amazing system. And it is THE steal of steals in matteboxes today.

Stephen
Click to expand...

I own the Redrock MB, and on the rare occasion when I decide to use a MB with my still lenses it is the one I use. It is an excellent MB for the price, in fact IMO better than some that cost a whole lot more. I'm not hung up on name brand accessories unless they happen to be absolutely essential for a project - and then I rent them on a per-project basis. For everyday imaging with RED One 35mm still lenses and accessories like the Redrock MB are excellent.
 
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