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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED USERS UNDER ATTACK in GEORGIA

Politics isn't right here, but it's right now. My mother escaped the advancing Russians from her home town of Stettin, Germany, in 1945, which is now a part of Poland, and she was never able to return. But Germany was at the tail end of getting whacked after doing some serious 'busting heads' of it's own.

From what I understand, Ossetia wants to be independent from Georgia and it seems like Russia is being very opportunistic in their "support" of the Ossetians' 'struggle". Which Ossetians?

Watch footage from any conflict. The civilians AND THE SOLDIERS are being pushed and pulled until their arms rip off. War! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing! Parents and children have been singing that song for centuries but when you get a taste of power, you're on your own side, eyes wide shut!

To add something relevent to RED, Scarlet will surely have a huge doc impact in the world of field reporting, and these stories must be told. Anyone see "Wardance", about child war victims in Uganda? Unreal. And in many ways I feel sorry that humans are such callous, self-centered creatures. But what can we do? It's the nature of all beasts.
 
Levan Bakhia said:
That is right. So this is time to act.

Georgians are Orthodox Christians since 3rd century, people who live in the conflict territory, Ossetians are muslims, but this has nothing to do with religion. Georgia is very tolerant country, it has always been.
Click to expand...

Not true. Ossetians are mostly Christians, not muslims
 
OK Nikolai, It is not personal, really, I do respect you personally, and honestly there are no Georgians against Russian people, trust me, do not be offended. I should not have continued it. As you said Peace. I do Love russian nation honestly, but what is happening is not right. So lets not argue about it.

I remember several years ago, when Russia has started kicking Georgian nationals out of Russia, and called out Russians from Georgia, Georgians were forced to go standing in the military planes, without seats. and when russians were leaving, Georgians came with baskets of fruits, flowers and cakes to see Russians off. Do not be agreesive on me even here, as I said I have a half Russian wife, her mother is Russian, and I have a lot of friends, who live here and I visit Russia a lot and love being there, I love speaking russian, and any russian was always welcome in Georgia, much more than any american. So once again at least lets have peace between each other, at least here on this forum.
 
Iraq and Afghanistan has currently a hard time recovering from Christianity...

These things are seldom really religious issues, even though they are comfortable to define as such, because it is a way to irrationalise large segments of populations. There could be natural resources or strategic reasons for different countries to fight over a third territory.

Afghanistan has been more or less constantly under occupation or a state of civil war since ... long. The Current state of Civil and other war is more or less unbroken since the British (also not so successfull) invation in the 1830's... (1933-1970 seemingly an exception, despite a constant conflict with Pakistan) There's been perisans and europeans and indians and muslims and christians and even Ghengis Khan. Everyone have wanted this mountain land for one reason or other.

Religion is hardly the reason for the desire of controll over a territory. But it is a good and non-argumentable excuse.

It's not currently muslims killing the most in Afghanistan, and I have no idea why Georgians and Russians fight over a territory, but there's more likely than not some strategic or economic reasoning behind it.

nevertheless. Independent states are desired by quite a few. Sometimes by muslims. Sometimes by christians. Sometimes by jews.

By argumenting through religion for a states existense (or non-existense), one certainly have no very good records for the outcome of the conflict that inevitably comes.

I still stand by my statement: Those killing the most are always the worst. Just now, in South Ossetia - that seems to be the russians - for whatever reason.
 
Georgia is by far innocent victim, believe me, we were pulled into this, it was not our choice, do not listen to just media, it is a media war as well as war war.

Now image following, as I have mentioned in previouse post, the territory now called S.Ossetia, was part of Georgia forever, in the mid 20th century, a man call Ioseb Jugashvili, aka STALIN, has setteled aroudn 30000 Ossetians on this territory, and declared it as a state of S.Ossetia, but still part of Georgian Republic. Georgian Republic was one of Soviet Republics. After Soviet broke up, the conflict started, because Russian politics was to have unstable situation in Georgia, so Ossetians started the fight for their "freedom", by that time Ossetia was occupied 80% by Georgian by nation and 20% by Ossetians, but they were citizens of Georgia. With the help of Russia, Georgian were kicked out of their homes and refuges still live in Tbilisi and other cities of Georgia. To stop the fight as if Russian peace keepers were alocated to S.Ossetia and war in 1992 was stopped. Even thou S.Ossetia was under de facto control of illegal governmet, international society have not approved them as a country, and by all international laws it remains part of Georgia since then, but not controlled by Georgians. Georgians will never give up their land, we are small country anyway, we do not want our land to be taken away form us, who wants, so even if now we tried to get our territory back, it is our right, and we never attacked civilians. If you watch news from 3 days ago, Ossetians were bombing our villages, and our president has adressed them that, Georgians would not fight back, our troops were ordered not to fire. Ossetians have continued fire on our villages for more than 12 hours, before Georgia has opened fire. What I write here is a FACT, absolute FACT, you can go and watch news programs or whatever, our presidents words was, "please brother ossetians, Georgians will forgive that you are bombing our villages if you stop now, we will not fire back, please stop it" but fire have not stopped, so then we had to protect ourself, and it was made decision to enter S.Ossetia with troops. It is no way true that we used mass destruction weapon, because we have no such thing, we entered the territory. Even then when we were winning the fight, our president has ordered our troops to stop the fire for 3 hours. We said that we want peace, and if Ossetians would not fight back, would withdraw, then we would not fight. For those three ours, our military possitions were non stop bombed and fired. But our president kept promise and have not fired back for 3 hours. (I think it was mistake) and then we had to continue our fight. And what was reaction from Russia during this? They have bombed 12 Georgians cities, 200 kilometers away from this conflict territory. I say 200 kilometers away, they have bombed suburbs of Capital of Georgia Tbilisi. Last night they have entered with 300 tanks, 200 artilery, and more than 10000 troops. They have continued to bomb more locations around the country. Some Lufthansa flights had to land in Armenia because bombing of an international Airport was expected. Now they kicked us out of everywhere. And if you have watched the meeting of EU, you could see that russia do not respect anything but their own interests.

So I swear with all my life, my wife, my mother, father, my friend, my country, my nation, and every single value I have in my life that every word I wrote here is TRUE. So then you judge if we were innocent or not. Imagine if Mexican population in California would want independence, and they kick out US nationals, and in 10 years you go back to return it, and can someone blame you for that????

And what did US do? Nothing yet, nothing feasable. just talk. Why? because it happens so that US and EU is affraid of Russia, and I do understand that, Russia is a strong country, but hey what do think will happen if Russia stays dry out of it? They will believe in their might even more, so they will do more, they already control everything in the world, so they will want more.

And once again, keep in mind, I am not agains Russian people, I love russian people, I have russian wife, friends and partners. I just can not understand why the country has so agressive politics agains Georgia. We have always been friends. This is one planet we live, there is no other place to escape. Do not close your eyes.
 
When we look at the geography [and the number of nuclear war heads] of these two countries, which one is more likely:

- Georgia attacking Russia?

or

- Russia attacking Georgia?

* * *

Would I go and attack Mike Tyson?

[Well, in a sudden strike of suicidal divine light in my mind... I might. :)... but that's another matter. LOL.].
 
Levan, it's very hard to imagine that you are sold by your own president.
All this situation is a part of a very dirty game. I am very sad about both Georgian and Ossetian people.
 
First of all thanks Nikolai for kind words, even thou none of Georgian feel like being sold, but anyways, I believe that it is not your fault that you are not informed, it is political game played by countries, information is also a media war, what the world hears is what a "media war winner" wants the world to hear. Anyways, I appreciate your thought.

I also want to comment one thing about Kosovo. First of all I do believe that US and EU have done a lot of wrong things to the world, like russia is doing now to Georgia, but all the actions done by US was at least approved by other countries, think about it, it is very important, it shows that US respects international Law, even if they do wrong things, they do it with international resolutions. It does not change anything for the poor people whom this actions effect, but it does matter for other countries. Respecting other countries opinion is very important, and this case now shows that Russia did not respect it. So this is very different story, and I repeat it does not change anything for the country and people under attack, but it does matter for the rest of the world.

Now about serbia, we all know that people living on this territory have voted and made a choice. So you would say that why do not we vote in Ossetia, lets see what people want there, as Nikolai said Ossetians want to be with Russia, and if a choice by Kosovo people was respected by the world, why should not the same happen here, to avoid double standards. And yes, I completely agree, if people want freedom they should have it, but I want to remind you that before voting, all, and I say ALL of the refugees were returned to their homes, and only after this votes were made. So if we want to avoid double standards, then all the refugees should go back and vote after that. Don't you agreee? and if that happens, the choice will be to stay with Georgia, believe me.
 
... ah Levan, that is opening a can of worms... :)

I totally sympathies with civilans, everywhere. And freedom.

But which refugees? From what? Where do one put the line.

To take the Norwegian parallell. The Lapps are by now totally outnubered by Norwegians (and Swedes, Finns and Russians, btw...) in their original habitat.

What do you think the outcome of an election would be?
And would that be fair?

These are not simple questions and there are really no good answers to them. Where do you draw the historical "right" line.
Where is "Fair" and to whom? And on which reasons?

Was the demolition of Apartheid fair to the Boers? Should Galtieri be given an amnesti? And what about Pinochet? Or Bush? :)

Two wrongs does not make one right, and there is a bigger and rather ruthless political game at play here...

But the actual political situation and the suffering of civilians are two different subjects all together...

One can never be "fair". The other is always inacceptable...
 
Not exactly the same, Muroshi. Different cows.
Click to expand...

I don't see a difference. Chechenians also would like to have their independence. That's where the contradictory begins I guess..

Not some of them, but most of them. People leaving in Ossetia wants to be Russian citizens.
Click to expand...

Says who? That's a claim.

Again, officialy Russia has rights and duty to keep peace in this region given by United Nations.
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It's about interests. The majority of the United Nations wouldn't approve what Russia does at the moment...

Exactly the same as United States and EU wants.
Click to expand...

While this may apply to the USA (which is on its best way to a plutocracy) I haven't seen the EU sending troops anywhere so far. Have you?
 
Levan Bakhia said:
but I want to remind you that before voting, all, and I say ALL of the refugees were returned to their homes, and only after this votes were made.
Click to expand...

Levan this didn't happen with Serbians in Kosovo... they first change the demographics and then they vote... Thats double standards my friend... Its like Cyprus, 1974 the Turkishcypriots ware 70K people and the Greekcypriots ware over a milion and today the Turkishcypriots are declared 350K of which just the 100K are real the rest are displaced Turks from Anatolia, when they vote, the real Turkishcypriots cant elect a government because the displaced are the majority and they are guided by the Turkish occupation army...

International game play is not so simple anymore... double standards are every ware...
 
I might not know the history of Kosovo and Serbians. Do I care? not now, not today, when I sit in my home and expect a bomb to fall on us and die. All I know, is that every georgian believes in 3 things, and it has brought us all the way, and this 3 things are "Language, Country and Religion", it is what Georgia is all about, and nobody will ever take it away from us, not now, not after so many centuries of blood in our history.

Do not forget that now Georgia fights not only for Georgia, we fight for you, for the world. Did you know by the way that the only alternative, ONLY alternative way of energy supplies for Europe goes thru Georgia, even now Russia has been dictating Europe with its Energy power, and now if they take over Georgia and control it as well, then Europe will fully depend on Russia. Think about it. We fight for law, and freedom for all of you. I clearly understand your position, you do not feel it, and you can not imagine future of this imperial country, you are not acting careful. Will we all regret it? Time is going to show and then you would not care what is double standards.
 
Well, just to let you know, not it is 5:20 AM in Georgia, and Russians have started bombing Tbilisi, capital. I do not even go outside, I do not care. Imagine if they bomb DC or better Moscow.

:*) funny thing is that, I would never imagine I would get used to it. I knew it would happen, but now that it happened I am not affraid. not at all. Brings a smile on my face.

The only thing is that it is sad that we do not have anything to protect at least air space of at least capital.
 
Levan, yesterday in ancient Olimpia, a Greek-Georgian gold medalist Kahi Kahiasvily organized a big protest about the situation... it was a big protest! we Greeks, don't like war at all... Their is a big Greek-Georgian community in Georgia... So please protect your self, and help as many as you can, its not time for political disputes...

My thoughts are with you... I hope that I will hear from you again my friend.
 
My heart goes out to you and your fellow Georgians. Truly.

I had the privilege of shooting my first doc in Tbilisi in 1991, just after tanks were rolling in Red Square and Russian troops were killing people in Tbilisi.

We stayed in the homes of folks who were pro-Russian and also those in the resistance. All were amazing, wonderful people, period.

Hunger strikers were in front of public buildings, thousands were debating in the streets, buses and cars were overturned, rubble everywhere. Russian, State, and local troops were also everywhere, all with different agendas. We spoke to many people on most sides of the arguments, and to say the least, it was an extremely complicated situation.

CNN didn't get it right, nor did the major newspapers - they so oversimplified the situation that it made a mockery of the reality. I think the only reporter that got close to the reality was P.J. O' Rourke in Rolling Stone, believe it or not.

Because there was almost no mention or footage of Tbilisi's strife in the U.S. news, I immediately offered raw footage to my contacts at a major U.S. network news source. The producers were initially quite interested in the footage of Georgian hunger strikers, but upon viewing it passed, because they "weren't emaciated enough". I kid you not. Story was definitely last place in their minds, and it disgusted me.

I hope times have changed and more folks give this more attention.

Georgia has such a rich history as an independent nation. I hope they one day achieve the real independence they have sought for so long.

John Hunt
 
Evangelos, John Hunt, and everybody else, I appreciate your kind words. We are well by now, at this moment bombing is stopped at least for last 4-6 hours. Keep you updated.

In 1991, Georgia was at hardest times in its history, the same story then, with russians, but less exposure, hope this time the wold will not make the same mistake, this is different time now, it is 21st century now. I hope this matters.

It is funny, but today I receive viewfinder :*) and it is great :*)

wish you all the best.
 
I'm not sure I understand the source of the conflict- There's a section of Georgia sympathetic to Russia that hoped to separate so the Russians invaded to take that area? Or do they plan to invade the entire country?

As for Russian attitude, I met a group of students from Moscow last week and spent several days discussing/hanging out-- The absolutely hated what they had encountered in the US... Which in large part was just a difference in cultures. But- yes, they agreed that its their right to go into other nations as they see fit. I was shocked, until they pointed out that is more or less what the US has done.
 
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