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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

watch out for lasers

V

Vinit Borrison

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Shooting an episode of a TV series in a nightclub, green and blue lasers everywhere. They occasionally flared the lens and scorched the sensor. Rental house had to send the cams back to Red. Be careful.
 
bint2k said:
They occasionally flared the lens and scorched the sensor. Rental house had to send the cams back to Red. Be careful.
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Ouch! :pinch:

Thanks for the screen grab from one of my favorite scenes in one of my favorite movies. Catherine Zeta Jones in "Entrapment."
 
weirdcrew said:
Now that pic says it was all worth it :love:


Seriously! Did the laser hurt the sensor? If so, how long was it exposed etc


Fredrik Callinggard
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No one really knows because all the footage from after the lasers were turned on showed the artifacts of the damaged sensor, and everything before is perfectly fine. If I can get to my backup machine today I'll post some stills.
 
bint2k said:
Shooting an episode of a TV series in a nightclub, green and blue lasers everywhere. They occasionally flared the lens and scorched the sensor. Rental house had to send the cams back to Red. Be careful.
Click to expand...

This is pretty scary because lasers are very common and something people want/need to shoot. Is there any filter that could protect against this?
 
Shooting lasers has been an issue for electronic cameras.
Seen/heard of numerous 3CCD cameras that needed chip replacement due to shooting directly into a laser (at weddings/concerts etc).
I'm guessing there is a filter that can help protect our sensors?
Would an IR hot mirror help?
 
There are lasers, and then there are lasers. The type that are legal to use in close proximity to people in the US are lower power than is used most other places in the world (the US rules are more strict about eye safety). A typical laser pointer will be safe for almost any camera. A powerful multi-watt output laser will probably kill any unprotected electronic camera if makes a direct hit. It would also do a job on your eyeball.

If you use a specialized filter matched to the laser wavelength, you can protect against even high power lasers. However, since it absorbs the light it will also make the beam invisible, which probably removes the whole point of having it there.
 
Lasers can cause damage to all cameras, this is not an issue unique to RED. We are talking about concentrated points of light that can be brighter than looking (or pointing the camera) directly at the sun or a welding arc or...

Typically lasers are not a problem, especially at live events with crowds, because lasers can't (or should not) be directed at the crowds as a direct hit to someone's eye can cause irreparable damage. Especially with laser systems used for concerts and events as they are pretty powerful in order to produce nice visible beams - for green, these lasers can be in the 220 to 350mW range.. At 300mW, a green laser is powerful enough to pop dark colored balloons, light matches, and scorch small insects instantly. In just a couple seconds, it can burn through certain types of paper or light a cigarette. It doesn't take a laser that powerful to do damage... Look at an 80mW green laser pointer someone might carry in a shirt pocket. 80mW of coherent photons focused into and bombarding a spot 1.5cm in diameter. Now put that through a lens that focuses it down onto a film frame or optical sensor to 1/100th of it's size, yet it retains nearly the full 80mW of energy by the time it hits the sensor... What do you think is going to happen? Cameras should be in similar locations to the crowds. For shots from other viewing angles, once again, the cameras should be placed in areas where the lasers will not be targeted, not only for safety, but the best view of a laser effect is from the side of the beam anyway.

Back to the original post, too bad that happened to the cameras. But it sounds like improper laser handling to me. If the laser light was causing flares on the camera, then that means the crew's eyes were probably vulnerable too. Kinda says that no one with proper knowledge of these lasers and how to control or filter them was present on-set.
 
Same thing with glass melting stoves, you don't want to point the lenses in this direction without proper filters on it.
 
Not an expert, but I used to work with lasers here and there. If you do a search on youtube, you'll turn up a bunch of nerdy people popping balloons and lighting matches with inexpensive lasers you can buy online.
 
Erik Bien said:
http://www.wickedlasers.com/
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Looks like they're selling at least a Class IIIb laser, without the FDA required safeguards. Probably calling it a "OEM module" and shipping the power supply separately to get around the regulation

Overall their website seems to be emphasizing "fun" uses of these lasers (pop balloons, light cigarettes, and other nifty stuff). Call me old-fashioned, but I'd say a 300 mW output laser is just about as much a toy as a handgun.

More laser fun (it doesn't say, but this one might have "watts" rather than "mw" output):

Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:23pm ED MOSCOW (Reuters) - Dozens of partygoers at an outdoor rave near Moscow last week have lost partial vision after a laser light show burned their retinas, Russian health officials said on Monday. [...] http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSL1452972520080714
 
I wanted to bump this thread up (along with Jeff's excellent comments). Reason being is we have had a few customers (or people that customers have rented cameras to) recently not take the necessary precautions with laser work. Or even think twice before shooting lasers....

Again, Jeff sums it up every well so no need for me to add to it... Just trying to protect you guys from some serious repair issues that can be avoided.

BC


Jeff Kilgroe said:
Lasers can cause damage to all cameras, this is not an issue unique to RED. We are talking about concentrated points of light that can be brighter than looking (or pointing the camera) directly at the sun or a welding arc or...

Typically lasers are not a problem, especially at live events with crowds, because lasers can't (or should not) be directed at the crowds as a direct hit to someone's eye can cause irreparable damage. Especially with laser systems used for concerts and events as they are pretty powerful in order to produce nice visible beams - for green, these lasers can be in the 220 to 350mW range.. At 300mW, a green laser is powerful enough to pop dark colored balloons, light matches, and scorch small insects instantly. In just a couple seconds, it can burn through certain types of paper or light a cigarette. It doesn't take a laser that powerful to do damage... Look at an 80mW green laser pointer someone might carry in a shirt pocket. 80mW of coherent photons focused into and bombarding a spot 1.5cm in diameter. Now put that through a lens that focuses it down onto a film frame or optical sensor to 1/100th of it's size, yet it retains nearly the full 80mW of energy by the time it hits the sensor... What do you think is going to happen? Cameras should be in similar locations to the crowds. For shots from other viewing angles, once again, the cameras should be placed in areas where the lasers will not be targeted, not only for safety, but the best view of a laser effect is from the side of the beam anyway.

Back to the original post, too bad that happened to the cameras. But it sounds like improper laser handling to me. If the laser light was causing flares on the camera, then that means the crew's eyes were probably vulnerable too. Kinda says that no one with proper knowledge of these lasers and how to control or filter them was present on-set.
Click to expand...
 
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