3.1.6 tested and it's worst then before

[Martin Preiss]

Cos otherwise will be stuck with buiild 15 for 100 days. But I'm repeating myself. It's my risk, and I'm willing to pay for it if necessary. So far the camera performs smoothly - pictures are great I'm happy I made good choice and decision.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Why are people using Build 16 Beta on professional shoots?? Seems suicidal to me...at best it's a gamble - if I was an investor I'd be pissed off...

I believe Jim said 16 beta is more stable than 15 release.

 

[Warren Kommers]

Why are people using Build 16 Beta on professional shoots?? Seems suicidal to me...at best it's a gamble - if I was an investor I'd be pissed off...

The whole camera is a gamble to be honest. That's part of the risk you accept shooting with this camera. 16 is as stable or more so than 15.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Just discovered that these garbled frames go away when I enable Full res in Redcine. When I have it in 1/4 res medium it appears. Here are the shots.

Can anyone else confirm this is what is happening to them?

 

[Bruce Allen]

Nice discovery Steve!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Steve Sherrick]

On export to quicktime, I am discovering that the garbled frame is not there. Although interestingly enough, in Draft Mode it almost appears that the first few frames are soft and then it snaps into sharp video, but this behavior does not show up in standard and full res modes. Not sure if the issue is related, but I'm starting to wonder if there are some Redcine bugs here.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Okay, this is a bit strange. I exported that bad frame out as a TIFF to see if it would come across in that render. The TIFF was fine. But when I went back into Redcine, the first frame was now hi-res no matter what what playback quality I have set. I can't get the garbled frame back. I'll restart Redcine, see if it comes back....

Nope, still a hi-res frame. Every other frame in the range is at the playback quality I set. Weird.

I never did get an actual codec error while I was shooting. I only discovered this Garbled frame in Redcine. Now I need to go and see if I can actually make a codec error happen with Build 16 or if this problem truly does lie in Redcine.

 

[David Wyatt]

I believe Jim said 16 beta is more stable than 15 release.

If you're quoting Jim he also advised against using Build 16 Beta on professional shoots, so go figure...

 

[David Wyatt]

16 is as stable or more so than 15.

Completely wrong in my experience and seemingly in many other people's experience, but I guess it depends what you're shooting - Fredrick had problems with greenscreen, other people have had problems with cycs (a white cyc is what I've personally seen Build 16 repeatedly struggle with - I have no idea why this should be but it's interesting that's it's been noted by Red):

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15859&page=2

This may be at the root of why these new codec errors have suddenly cropped up in Build 16 Beta because maybe alpha testers weren't necessarily shooting in all situations & conditions (like green screen/cycs etc).

In terms of Build 15 (Release)'s reliability, personally I can't recall having seen a codec error in 4K 2:1 25fps Recode 28, but maybe I've been lucky and again it probably depends on what you're shooting. I think the codec errors in both builds seem to be caused by different things.

 

[Paul Leeming]

Just discovered that these garbled frames go away when I enable Full res in Redcine. When I have it in 1/4 res medium it appears. Here are the shots:

Can anyone else confirm this is what is happening to them?

I've noticed this too in Redcine. The footage is fine though in RedAlert, so I am assuming this to be a RedCine bug at this point along with the broken ISO function. I'd wager since it's first frame stuff that the new codec has thrown a bit somewhere which is messing up the initial look. No doubt it will get fixed soon.

As an aside re: RedCine, has anyone else noticed any banding in images that wasn't there in the older version? Almost like RedCine is operating at 8bit precision and not 10/12/16 bit precision any more (for display purposes only, encoding seems fine).

HTH

Paul

 

[tj williams]

It appears that 6 or 8 people have htese codec problems and post about it whereas hundreds of us have not had these problems. Perhaps there are some defective hardware issues?
Maybe if RED sent these people a loaner the problems would go away, which is in my interest also as producers read these threads and freak out! Certainly it would help get to the bottom of the problem.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

It appears that 6 or 8 people have htese codec problems and post about it whereas hundreds of us have not had these problems. Perhaps there are some defective hardware issues?
Maybe if RED sent these people a loaner the problems would go away, which is in my interest also as producers read these threads and freak out! Certainly it would help get to the bottom of the problem.

Sorry but it's not about 6 or 8 people... But just those who are willing to help find a solution on this issue.

See you.

Pat

 

[tj williams]

Hi Pat, I guess I missed it, How many people have had these issues?

 

[Dan Hudgins]

4K build 16 16:9 byte or word aligned...

4K build 16 16:9 byte or word aligned...

I've noticed this too in Redcine. The footage is fine though in RedAlert... Paul

Hi again,

Thanks for the smaple 4K 2:1 TIFF files, I have been writing a converter to bring them into my edit system as 16bit TIFF to my internal 16 bit (48 bit) format used for CC etc. Your 4K 2:1 TIFF work just fine in my simple converter.

With the 16:9 4K TIFF posted in the associated thread seem to have a different internal structure.

To help me get 16:9 4K TIFF import/export working, I am asking anyone who has or can make some 16:9 4K TIFF files (or other sample tiff made with the RED software) using the RED software (build 15 and 16) to convert their 16:9 RED CODE 4K data to 16:9 4K TIFF files to please give me a link to their files so I can check out the file header to see what makes the 16:9 files different from some of the other sample files.

BTW: the TIFF going directly into my CC seems to look better than going through XnView 5x plus fuse, it might hold more shadow detail or show less noise with the RED LOG 4K TIFF, still working looking into the import issues...

Anway, I can use all the 16:9 4K (or other) TIFF frames anyone can put up for download to de-bug this import issue, so thanks to those who have some, please mark them build 15 or build 16 and log or 709 as the case may be in the filename (only files made by the RED software, and please tell me which one), thanks!!!

The TIFF file I have been looking at is in post #1 here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15703

 

[Martin Preiss]

Just discovered that these garbled frames go away when I enable Full res in Redcine.
Can anyone else confirm this is what is happening to them?

No I double checked it, and I have garbled frames inside full resolution in RedCine and RedAlert. My post on first page is direct from RedAlert Full Res. So it's fault of codec, not post.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Okay, interesting. And just so we can eliminate Red Alert from the equation, you have tried with a variety of settings, and no matter what combination you use, the garbled frames are still there, correct? Any chance you can post an R3D?

 

[Martin Preiss]

Okay, interesting. And just so we can eliminate Red Alert from the equation, you have tried with a variety of settings, and no matter what combination you use, the garbled frames are still there, correct? Any chance you can post an R3D?

Nope still talking just about 4K 16:9 25fps @ RED28 @ CF cards.

Will not change project setting now. As 3.1.5 is stable. Only codec errors when using smoke in strong backlight. Otherwise smooth. And here's the reason not to change stuff:
28 or 36 -> stuck with 28 cos we didn't get RAID or SSD Disks from RED yet
4K -> because of lenses and dept of field consistent in whole movie (except slowmotion footage - didn't do any yet)
16:9 changing the ratio to 2:1 and back and so on will be mess in postproduction
25fps -> sound is recorded separately -> mess in postpro.

And as you see from pictures we sometimes need to focus on other things then to be a tester for RED. :bye2:

 

[Steve Sherrick]

I meant settings in Red Alert, sorry about the confusion. Have you changed various settings in Red Alert to see if anything triggers a different result of the frame (for example, changing sharpness). Just want to make sure there is nothing happening in RA that could be sign of a bug.

 

[Antoine Baumann]

It appears that 6 or 8 people have htese codec problems and post about it whereas hundreds of us have not had these problems. Perhaps there are some defective hardware issues?
Maybe if RED sent these people a loaner the problems would go away, which is in my interest also as producers read these threads and freak out! Certainly it would help get to the bottom of the problem.

I don't think it is a hardware issue. I think it is a compression issue (as build 16 has a new compression engine) and that all cameras are subject to it, yours also.

I completely agree that producer shouldn't know about this....;-)

I will again send magazine log file with some pictures and as many information on these compressions errors to RED to help them find the problem.

ciao,
antoine.

 

[David Birdy]

Hi Dancad,
As a DP you don't set your stop depending on what works best for the camera. There are a whole slew of reasons for what you want your shooting stop to be and because the camera can't handle it is not an acceptable reason. All of Issic's posts are valid and I understand you're just trying to help. Your knowledge of sensors and processing and all that shit sounds very substantial and way over my head, but the fact remains that we shouldn't be a slave to the camera's problems. I have faith that these issues will be fixed and I for one am glad I am hearing about them here and not having to deal with them on set.

Good luck Issic. Problems aside, your shoot looks good.

Great post!... I laughed out load! So many "Self proclaimed" DP's don't understand the technology they are working with, don't make an effort to learn it then use a beta software build, then blame the camera!

Be proactive, be professional, and if you don't know, for God's sake hire some one that does know. I apologize if this is a rant, but I am really getting tired of reading post like the one that started this thread. Did you call tech support ? Do you have someone on set with enough knowledge to talk to someone at tech support and walk you through some of the possible fixes?
Did you think of staying with a "Know good" build like build 15?

Dave