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3rd Party Mounts - Warning

Jarred Land

Jarred Land

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This is a tough one.. but we just got in a customers camera with a 3rd party mount yesterday ( Birger Canon Mount ) and improper mounting caused significant damage due to a short with one of the cables.

Erik has been tracking this issue, and this is the first camera we have actually physically received with the Birger mount (its actually the first time we have seen the latest design of the mount), so we are not sure of the severity of the problem. The Birger mount is a great concept and a necessary solution to some, so hopefully the issue can be resolved soon.

I just wanted to make sure everyone is aware of the warranty impacts that you may have when you start taking the camera apart. The camera warranty only covers mounts that do not involve taking off the adjustable back-focus ring.. if you go beyond that, the warranty is void, on any 3rd party product.

We love all the 3rd party developers.. they make bad-ass products that make our system better. And we don't want that to stop, we just need to make sure everyone is in the know.
 
Hi Jarred,

Can you clarify what this means with regard to the Birger mount (I haven't seen one yet), does this mean that installing the mount will void the warranty?
 
Wasn't Birger asked by Red to produce the mount? A lot of people, myself included bought the Red on the basis that we were given the option of using canon SLR lenses together with the Red One.

Are you saying now that anyone who uses the Birger voids their warranty?
 
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trick said:
is it possible, to purchase the red's nikon mount installed on the camera by red w/ the warranty intact?
Click to expand...

Red Nikon mount doesn't void the warranty, if you do it yourself, or if we do it, as it does not replace the backfocus element.

And yes we do offer the install service at no additional fee (its included with the cost of the mount) , but its an Add-on, not a replacement ( so if you bought your camera, wanted it mounted when it shipped, we would install it, and put your PL mount in a box and ship it along with the camera.

And this is not directly targeted to the Birger mount.. its any accessory that involves disassembly of the camera past what your allowed to remove (PL lockring, side module cover)
 
Sorry to push a point...

But does this mean that the Birger mount :
1) requires the removal of the PL back focus elements (more than what is allowed by RED)
2) voids the warranty if installed.

If so, I'm off to cancel my Birger order.
 
Well this could certainly put a damper on things for some people, including me. I'm saving for a Red of my own, but I probably won't be able to afford to buy outright (I hate credit) a significant collection of PL glass off the bat. I would need a mount for Nikon G glass, which doesn't have an aperture ring on the lens. So far the only way to do this is with the Birger mount, which if it's like the Canon version, will require removing the backfocus collar.

I know there are a lot of people that the Birger mount has made RED much more accessible to so they can have a quality solution with excellent lenses from Canon, for instance, with the latest EF glass available, allowing them to build a full lens collection for about the same price as a RED zoom.

If the Birger Nikon mount can get away with not replacing the backfocus collar by virtue of the slightly longer flange focal distance of the F mount then so much the better, but I expect it has more to do with the mechanics required and perhaps necessary support.

Though once the warranty is up, I guess I'd just switch it out anyways. If P+S Technik makes a G-controlling IMS mount like they've said they would look at, I'd be set for a mixed system, as the Birger mount would involve too much swapping for me. I can easily see myself wanting one of my more specialized nikkors one minute and a PL lens for the next shot.
 
Yikes,

A lot of people are waiting anxiously for this mount--and I know of quite a few people that have their cameras sitting as unused bricks until it ships or holding their order until it ships.

Please work something out to make Birger a reality without voiding the warranty--even if it involves having you guys do the swap or tell people to wait until you do some sort of certification on the process.

The Red/Birger combo is a powerful one that a lot of people think is going to change the world. Please help make it a reality!

Best Regards,

Thom
 
Ed Watkins said:
Sorry to push a point...

But does this mean that the Birger mount :
1) requires the removal of the PL back focus elements (more than what is allowed by RED)
2) voids the warranty if installed.

If so, I'm off to cancel my Birger order.
Click to expand...

Hi,

If it did not void the warranty, why did Jared start this thread?

Out of interest how much will the repair cost?

Stephen
 
Jarred Land said:
This is a tough one.. but we just got in a customers camera with a 3rd party mount yesterday ( Birger Canon Mount ) and improper mounting caused significant damage due to a short with one of the cables.

Erik has been tracking this issue, and this is the first camera we have actually physically received with the Birger mount (its actually the first time we have seen the latest design of the mount), so we are not sure of the severity of the problem. The Birger mount is a great concept and a necessary solution to some, so hopefully the issue can be resolved soon.

I just wanted to make sure everyone is aware of the warranty impacts that you may have when you start taking the camera apart. The camera warranty only covers mounts that do not involve taking off the adjustable back-focus ring.. if you go beyond that, the warranty is void, on any 3rd party product.

We love all the 3rd party developers.. they make bad-ass products that make our system better. And we don't want that to stop, we just need to make sure everyone is in the know.
Click to expand...

Perhaps an independent power supply for the Birger would be safer ... :waaa:
Scary that a wiring problem can cause 'significant' damage :wacko:
 
I think a lot of people put down their reservation for a Red One at NAB 2007 based on this press release by Red:

(Lake Forest, Ca – April 15, 2007)

RED Digital Cinema, Inc. and Birger Engineering, Inc. announced today an agreement to develop and market a remotely controllable Canon EOS lens mount for the RED ONE Digital Cinema camera.

Stuart English, Workflow Wizard at Red Digital Cinema, commented, “This agreement allows RED customers to exploit the very large installed base of Canon EOS mount stills photography lenses, which provide excellent image quality at very affordable prices. The combination of high image quality plus remote focus and iris control from RED’s SuperGrip™ or other remote controllers, means the entry price point for 4K resolution digital imaging is dramatically lowered, opening up significant new applications.

Erik Widding, President of Birger Engineering, noted, "We’re delighted through this agreement to be able to support the many requests we’ve received from RED customers for an intelligent mount for Canon’s EOS series lenses. Working closely with the RED team, we have been able to move very quickly from product concept to working prototype units”

The prototype of the EOS mount for RED ONE will be displayed at the NAB Show, Las Vegas, April 16 – 19. Product pricing and delivery will be announced shortly.
Click to expand...

I hope something will be worked out by Red and Birger.
 
h2opixels said:
Perhaps an independent power supply for the Birger would be safer ... :waaa:
Scary that a wiring problem can cause 'significant' damage :wacko:
Click to expand...

I was thinking about independent power as well. Hell, if was even if it was the same canon battery we use in a camera that had a six inch tether that we could clip onto the camera. IS and constant focusing may use more battery than we are used to, though, on a normal SLR.

Sounds like, though, the removal of the backfocus ring, whatever it is, would void the warranty anyway.
 
Its important to point out that the prototype mount we saw last year from Birger did not void the warranty. This is the first time we have seen the new design.
 
Guys,

Be careful not to over-react here. This is a common sense issue, it applies not only to mounts, but I believe to batteries as well. If you have a power issue and the camera is damaged while using a battery OTHER than RED's then you will have no warrenty coverage there also. (I was told this by someone it happened too, so take with a grain of salt)

You can assume if you use a product OTHER than RED's and the camera is damaged, it would be foolish for RED to take any kind of responsibility.

In this case the responsibility would be Erik's, unless the owner installed the Birger Mount incorrectly. Which is what I think Jarred said happened.

What this does bring up that concerns me, is normal non-tech trained owners messing around with High End Motion Picture Equipment. I would never dissemble my Panasonic 900 and I am certainly not wild about digging into the guts of my RED either.

I strongly suggest, if you are not trained in repair or installation of the kind of equipment you have in front of you, that you find someone who is, and have them do any kind of modifications to your camera. Of course some things are very simple, but taking off the entire front of the lens housing seems rather extreme to me, unless you know what you are doing.

My first suggestions would be to contact RED and ask them about installation modification, or Erik at Birger.

After that I would think Abel Cine, or other places like that would be a good idea.

Be careful, if you are not 100% confident in what you are doing, then find somone who is.. Yes it takes longer and is a pain in the ass, but better than a broken camera.

Jay
 
Indeed - I based my purchase off of REDs endorsement.
 
Keep in mind that even if RED had covered the mount, I doubt they would have covered an incorrect installation.

You put it on wrong and break it, then you will pay for it.. Warrenty or not

Jay
 
Obviously they're going to work this out, Erik has massive incentives to make this work or he's going to have to refund a lot of money and he spent the last 6 months for nothing. The bummer though is that it indicates yet another delay in the birger saga. Does anyone know what specificly was the problem? I'm presuming since they just shipped back Erik's own camera to him that this was the actual Birger test camera. If so, that's very discouraging that Erik himself botched it.
 
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