It's lonely in here...

[Chris Gearhart]

Dynamic range, sensitivity and body ergonomics should be the top three priorities for this camera. Not resolution, not full-size XLRs, not accessory matching, not mount interchangeability, etc. It's a more expensive camera with a more specific professional market. It needs to be a professional solution!

Give me a shimmed invar lens mount, give me a usable 640 ASA under tungsten conditions, give me significantly more than 11 stops of DR and redesign that body! I might finally become a customer with Epic!

I agree--Sensitivity and DR over huge steps in resolution--and keep it high end professional in design choices and specs. The body form factor isn't a huge issue for me, though, and I kinda like the ability to interchange accessories. I will have one of both, and while I wouldn't want to compromise on design because of it, it'd be nice not to have to worry about what goes in what box--more options and flexibility.

I assume part of the quietness is Scarlet will be so much more popular over a $40k solution. A much smaller subset from REDuser will be barking at this door.

 

[Bing Bailey]

I know they are doing the 5k thing so they can really get 4k of resolvable details instead of 3.2k. thats all good. no post solution for that yet but I'll deal. what I really want is to hit or beat the DR of film. Modern film really is the one to beat when it comes to DR. thats the holy grail. we can never truly talk about replacing film until we can beat all its visual attributes. we already have its negatives beat. now lets hit up its positives.

cranking to full res at 100fps is great too. I'd also like a digital slating app on the iphone controlling epic/red/scarley via wifi and the ability to create custom xml fields on the R3D files which would make them truly unique and searchable by all production/post production departments.

 

[SF Geek]

How about Red starts off by putting the camera interface on the smart side. They blew it with Red One. I can only hope they don't make the same mistake twice.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

What's the problem with the body?

It has all the aesthetics of the Borg Cube... It's a friggin' block. I'm all for modularity and building a camera system to fit *me* around the core camera body, but... I think there are some serous ergonomic issues that need to be addressed. I'm not entirely sold on having some connectors on the rear and osme on the "dumb side" of the camera. Controls on the rear are a touchy subject... Personally, I would prefer them on the operator side of the camera instead of the rear. But that's just me, I've talked to people who like the controls on the rear with RED. With the RED One, I'm almost always operating the controls blind, watching the monitor and I have to deal with the power cable back there and power and record buttons I can bump if I'm not careful.

I think a more curvy body would work better here or something more ergonomically friendly. Look at the ARRI 235 and the ARRICAM LITE. The 235 has that little curve on the bottom that turns into an ergonomic shoulder-hugging design when used with their Shoulder Magazine. The ARRICAM LITE has some good design elements too.

 

[C.H.Haskell]

I am not a big fan of speculating but I liked what I saw at NAB and as big Jon told me, EPIC is a conversation starter and I am sure the design may alter but I dig its classic breadbox style, the old meets the new etc but it all boils down to this...

EPIC is simply the next generation of the REDONE, it's everything everyone ever wanted from RED ONE...and this is all part of the natural evolution but kudos to RED for keeping REDONE owners in mind. From the exchange program, to compatibility, and upgrades...they are paving a road map RED owners should be comfortable with and I really appreciate that.

Shooting with REDONE now and I don't think about EPIC, the images coming down the pipe are phenomenal already, build is stable and I take delivery in two weeks...so will I upgrade to EPIC in due time? Absolutely...in the mean time happy shooting everyone.

 

[Brook Willard]

It has all the aesthetics of the Borg Cube... It's a friggin' block. I'm all for modularity and building a camera system to fit *me* around the core camera body, but... I think there are some serous ergonomic issues that need to be addressed. I'm not entirely sold on having some connectors on the rear and osme on the "dumb side" of the camera. Controls on the rear are a touchy subject... Personally, I would prefer them on the operator side of the camera instead of the rear. But that's just me, I've talked to people who like the controls on the rear with RED. With the RED One, I'm almost always operating the controls blind, watching the monitor and I have to deal with the power cable back there and power and record buttons I can bump if I'm not careful.

I think a more curvy body would work better here or something more ergonomically friendly. Look at the ARRI 235 and the ARRICAM LITE. The 235 has that little curve on the bottom that turns into an ergonomic shoulder-hugging design when used with their Shoulder Magazine. The ARRICAM LITE has some good design elements too.

 

[Evin Grant]

OMFG!
I just spit up my scotch!

 

[Brook Willard]

Two or three years on from the breadbox and it still looks the same... :wink:

I kid, I kid...

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

You have to appreciate a company that is willing to return to their roots.

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

If they can knock off 40% of the camera's body weight, I don't care if it's a cube or a curve or a triangle, I'm sold....whatever is the most efficient means of losing weight sounds good to me...

Knock off the camera weight and the whole load gets lighter, lighter tripod, lighter rod system, lighter everything. I bet they fix all of the audio issues...full size XLRs...no freaky mini-connectors...Mysterium X...

This is my high country dream machine.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

I think with the higher price its out of most fanboys wallet range so they aren't bothering to come here and speculate about it. thats why they are all on the scarlet forum. its been very quiet in general here since that forum was created.

Isn't this the insult comment of the year? We aren't all fanboys just because our wallet isn't as big as your dad's.

I actually feel that when the Scarlet forum detatched from reduser, the Scarlet discussions lost most of it's professional attitude.
The so called fanboys weren't posting anything before that forum was created.

But, if your definition of a fanboy is based on the size of the wallet then I guess everyone is a fanboy after they purchased a Red One or the more so Epic.

 

[Bing Bailey]

its not an insult. its a statement of fact. I don't particularly have anything against fanboys. even 3,000 dollars is a lot for most people. you need to re read my post. I don't think you quite understood it. in fact if you search for my name you'll see a lot of my posts are against elitism and denying access to tools

 

[Christoffer Glans]

"Fanboys" is a word that has a sound of negativity, it's no wonder it's being missunderstood.
But still, who am I? I'm working with film, video and photography... does that make me a professional or a fanboy?

 

[mezmo]

No, a Cinevidographer.

 

[Bing Bailey]

"Fanboys" is a word that has a sound of negativity, it's no wonder it's being missunderstood.
But still, who am I? I'm working with film, video and photography... does that make me a professional or a fanboy?

Well Glazarus,

I can't define you. only you can. if you consider yourself a fanboy or a professional. thats not really for me to decide.

 

[Robert Frank]

You have to appreciate a company that is willing to return to their roots.

Thanks for the laugh Jeff! That's funny!

How about returning to these roots...

 

[Vincent Rice]

I think a more curvy body would work better here or something more ergonomically friendly. Look at the ARRI 235 and the ARRICAM LITE. The 235 has that little curve on the bottom that turns into an ergonomic shoulder-hugging design when used with their Shoulder Magazine. The ARRICAM LITE has some good design elements too.

OK. You understand none of that is going to happen? The limitations of building to a price whilst retaining strength and seal integrity means that RED are pretty much limited to blended platonic solids. The RED aesthetic is a clever (if a little 'butch') dealing with that limitation. The ARRI's are beautiful designs that evolved from their function; housing spinning film cans.

As a technical design the EPIC is a practical, efficient, cheap and honest solution to housing a rectangular sensor and some electronics cards.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

No, a Cinevidtographer

Hahaha, I might use that as a marketing slogan for my freelance company!!
Do you mind?

 

[david farland]

its funny there isn't a whole lot of speculation going on about Epic....
.... its been very quiet in general here since that forum was created.

Could it be that's there's nothing to talk about....!!
A lot of us are probably taking the wait and see approach!!

Everyone who has been through the Red One marketing frenzy realised once they got thru it....
how much futility and how much time was wasted in so many of the threads.

Another thing...Red's policy of drip feeding us made us look like fools!!
For the life of me, I don't know why Red tech's took this attitude.
I understand that spec's weren't nailed down but geez....people wasted so much time on speculation and weren't even near the ball park because why...
ERRR.....Either Red set it up that way...or it's the spectulative nature of internet forums??
I'd say the answer is BOTH....but I'm guessing the decision to drip feed us was a marketing led policy with an easy tech getout reason.
The tech argument being the design was highly complex and intradependant and to whiteboard the problem wasn't appropriate on this forum.
But Jez...the endless teasing with releases of very limited facts....what was that all about!!!
Do you think people want to go thru that dick mincing sausage making speculative process again!!

Go for it guys....!!

Now Red One Mark 2 is coming out. Epic is gonna be what Red One should have!!

Do we want to continue this poorly informed speculation again??
We already know the basic stuff we want.....latitude, noise (low), high rez taps, high frame rates and other stuff I can't think.
There's functional/ergonomic stuff that makes the Red easier to use, menus, layout,tools and then there's a bunch of nice to have add-ons...some call these essentials for them!

Why can't red just make a list of core ingrediants they're striving for and another list or two of secondaries.
Then aleast we're in the ballpark for discussion.
But I got better things to do than ask for 15 stops of every conceivable format/speed/output.

how about I ask one thing.
Red, stop treating us like fools and move the dial from marketing fodder to intelligent, passionate informed techs where we can contribute accordingly.

Phew....

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

OK. You understand none of that is going to happen? The limitations of building to a price whilst retaining strength and seal integrity means that RED are pretty much limited to blended platonic solids. The RED aesthetic is a clever (if a little 'butch') dealing with that limitation. The ARRI's are beautiful designs that evolved from their function; housing spinning film cans.

There's a lot more going on with Arri design than evolution to accommodate a film mag. There is a lot that can be done with shape and ergonomics that will not adversely effect the price of EPIC.

As a technical design the EPIC is a practical, efficient, cheap and honest solution to housing a rectangular sensor and some electronics cards.

Hmmm... But I see some things that could make it a lot more efficient, possibly even more practical. Why do we have some cable connectors on the rear some on the "dumb side" (and those don't face the rear) and then we have to navigate controls set right next to these rear connectors and with a power and record button right there too. Not my favorite design approach when I'll often be feeling around the rear of the camera in a hurry.

Kudos to RED on eliminating the killjoy-funkstick and going to the dial. Also the WiFi control option is promising. Maybe that means I can have a separate control module I can mount anywhere on or off the camera I choose, up to 50ft or more away. Now that would be slick.

Anyway, all just my opinion... We have to admit that we're all shooting blind here anyway... We have no idea what RED is cooking up for accessories or even if this is the ultimate design for EPIC. Look how much the design for the RED One changed in the year leading up to its release. ...And look how many aspects of it remained un-changed, even at the behest of many reservation holders (like the mini BNC and XLR connectors, no audio pots, etc..).