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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Old reservation. New chip?

E

Ed Blythe

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So there's quite a few people who've sat on their reservations until they're ready to pay up, irrespective of the fact that Red is ready to deliver to their range of res numbers.

So here's a question: if I have a reservation due later this year, can I sit on it until next year when cameras start shipping with Mysterium X chips? No extra cost? (Assuming that Red One bodies with MX chips still cost $17,500)

Don't see why not, thought it worth asking.

Mmmmm..... Red One-Point-X....
 
Yeah, I can't imagine why the RED ONE with the upgrades would cost the same as the camera without it. If that was so, the Epic wouldn't exist.

My guess is that the new sensor and board upgrades will probably be in the $10,000 range. That's a GUESS and I'd love to be wrong... but since I imagine they're replacing just about everything inside of the RED... it won't be cheap.

Based on the current policies, you could delay accepting your camera until the upgrade is ready, then pay for the camera and the upgrade and then take delivery.

Either that, or you could take delivery of your camera ASAP, make a bunch of money on it, shoot a bunch of projects and then upgrade when it's available...
 
Brook Willard said:
Either that, or you could take delivery of your camera ASAP, make a bunch of money on it, shoot a bunch of projects and then upgrade when it's available...
Click to expand...

Yes, I will take that please. ;-)
 
Brook Willard said:
Yeah, I can't imagine why the RED ONE with the upgrades would cost the same as the camera without it. If that was so, the Epic wouldn't exist.
Click to expand...

Intriguing. What do you think the ramifications are for this in terms of modularity, then? You always need to buy the (currently available) Red One package and then pay for the upgrades?

Which would mean:

1) They need to keep producing the Mysterium sensor in conjunction with the Mysterium X (even though it's obsolete)

OR

2) The Red One ceases to exist at its present price-point and becomes a $27,500 camera (only $13,000 or so under Epic)


Is that what you're saying or am I missing something? Feels a bit wrong-headed...
 
Remember, I made up that $10,000 figure.

But lets consider this:

An upgraded RED ONE should be feature-identical to the Epic. The bodies will be different, but the internal components and capabilities should be the same. That is how the "upgrade" concept was explained to me.

If the innards for the upgraded RED ONE were identical to the Epic... and the RED ONE was available with the upgrades for $17,500... it'd be less than half the cost of an Epic with exactly the same feature set. Unless the Epic is made of machined billet titanium, dreams and crushed butterfly wings, I just don't see it costing that much.

So my guess is as follows:

The RED ONE will exist at $17,500.
The "Mysterium X" upgrade for the RED ONE will exist at $X,XXX
The Epic will exist at ~$40,000.

Pick the camera that fits your requirements and budget. They've stated a few times that the RED ONE will remain the core of their business. As the Epic is priced as am ore professional camera with - hopefully - a more professional feature set and design, it'll have a much more limited market.

RED won't kill the RED ONE because of the Epic's introduction or the upgrade being available. It just doesn't make sense. I could be wrong, but I very much doubt it.

All speculation. They haven't been crystal clear on this front yet.
 
Red One will still shoot only 4k, right? So how can the insides/chip be identical to Epic? If they're "identical", Red One would have to have something that would dis-enable 5k?
 
Brook Willard said:
An upgraded RED ONE should be feature-identical to the Epic. The bodies will be different, but the internal components and capabilities should be the same. That is how the "upgrade" concept was explained to me.
Click to expand...

That's very interesting. Who's your source? I hadn't thought that was the case (at least, I figured the Epic would always have a better data rate / faster frame rate than the Red One due to onboard processing power).

Most certainly, if this is the case then the money is justified (I acknowledge all figures are speculative).

But I dunno ... seems unlikely that they'll be the SAME camera, just with different bodies. Seems to undercut the Epic market ... (is a smaller body worth that big a price difference, if there's NO other feature that separates them?)

Eh. Obviously nobody at Red is going to bite (although I do think it's a legitimate question as to whether the introduction of the Mysterium X chip constitutes a revamp of the camera, or just an upgrade option). Which is expected, I guess. Speculation and whatnot.

Thanks for your thoughts.
 
Ed Blythe said:
That's very interesting. Who's your source? I hadn't thought that was the case (at least, I figured the Epic would always have a better data rate / faster frame rate than the Red One due to onboard processing power).
Click to expand...

Jannard said:
After the release of Epic, we will offer a sensor upgrade to the RED ONE. More dynamic range with the same specs. New Mysterium X sensor. Should be middle of 2009.

Jim
Click to expand...
That combined with word-of-mouth and direct reports at NAB. There's always a lot of chaos surrounding NAB and misinformation has a nasty habit of popping up... so I could be wrong. But that's my understanding.

Perhaps we should suspend discussion in this topic until somebody from RED can give a statement. Speculation will lead to nothing positive.

I won't lock this thread... but lets just wait for the real word.
 
from what i read on a post by jim the options for a red owner are:
trade in your redone for full 17.5k credit
dont trade in and dont buy anything
send camera back for new xchip at no xtra cost.

could be wrong but thought thats what was said. not sure when theyre gonna start making the redones with the new chip in them so may not pay to wait if theres no cost except shipping.
 
Jason, I am pretty sure this was never the case... "send camera back for new xchip at no xtra cost."
 
Brook Willard said:
Perhaps we should suspend discussion in this topic until somebody from RED can give a statement. Speculation will lead to nothing positive.

I won't lock this thread... but lets just wait for the real word.
Click to expand...


That'd be great.

Out of curiosity - why would you lock the thread? (Other than that speculation is annoying (which may well be a valid reason in and of itself))
 
I doubt the "no xtra cost" is an option. It will cost something. 10K$ seem a bit high because the marging between upgrading sensor vs trading to Epic will be very slim.

I also doubt that upgraded RED ONE will have the same features as the Epic. On board processing on the Epic is going to be more powerful and probably have more buffer memory for the encoder. So unless Red also provide upgrade processor boards for RED ONE, which is unlikely since it will require separate R&D cause of the different physical configuration, the features of RED ONE will reduced in comparison to the Epic.
 
Ed Blythe said:
That'd be great.

Out of curiosity - why would you lock the thread? (Other than that speculation is annoying (which may well be a valid reason in and of itself))
Click to expand...

Speculation makes people crazy and starts rumors. Even as it stands, this thread will result in more than one "but I heard that..." comments over the next few weeks... at least until RED comments. There's nothing wrong with the thread at all, but I sort of started the ball rolling in a speculation-fueled direction.
 
I asked RED directly last week about:
1. Cost of RED ONE.5 with upgraded chip.
2. Cost of a used RED ONE that somebody had traded in for an Epic, potentially with new sensor.

The response I got was that both were tbd.
David
 
Ed Blythe said:
So there's quite a few people who've sat on their reservations until they're ready to pay up, irrespective of the fact that Red is ready to deliver to their range of res numbers.

So here's a question: if I have a reservation due later this year, can I sit on it until next year when cameras start shipping with Mysterium X chips? No extra cost? (Assuming that Red One bodies with MX chips still cost $17,500)

Don't see why not, thought it worth asking.

Mmmmm..... Red One-Point-X....
Click to expand...

If you can easily wait another year for your RED ONE, it begs the question... do you really NEED one?

We will be caught up with reservations and orders later this year. If you pass on your reservation at that time, we will close it down. I think we have been pretty fair letting people wait... but this can't go on forever.

Jim
 
Cheers, sounds fair.

Need? Noooo..... I guess not, in any survival sense. Desperately yearn for ... mmmmm, yes, absolutely.

Definitely wouldn't wait another year. Was assuming (dangerous, yes) that early 2009 would be unlikely but not impossible timeframe for release of upgraded sensor.
 
Hey Jim, was I accurate in my assessment that current RED ONEs will be upgradable to fully match Epic's specifications? Or am I completely wrong? I don't want to spread the wrong word.
 
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