Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dissapointment?...

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm betting RED ONE will not be upgradable. otherwise why offer to let you use the purchase price against the EPIC when you could just upgrade the sensor. they would have said don't worry everyone RED ONE will still be upgradeable like we said it was rather than letting us all go nuts on here
 
darkkelt said:
I'm betting RED ONE will not be upgradable. otherwise why offer to let you use the purchase price against the EPIC when you could just upgrade the sensor. they would have said don't worry everyone RED ONE will still be upgradeable like we said it was rather than letting us all go nuts on here
Click to expand...

Per Jim. Red One is upgradable-- not just a trade in to EPIC.
 
this is the sony disease , that thing you didn't like well just buy the new version and all will be cool and by the way some of your accessories might be toast. yes I know sony would never offer a 5k camera even for 40k. but the f23 and f35 was way out of most our ability to purchase anyway.
 
K.Berlin said:
can you tell me guys why you think it is 40 k...and not 30k...or 25k...
Click to expand...

Mike Curtis did a sitdown nab blog on provideocoalition and said it was $40kish. don't worry k.berlin by the time it ships the dollar will be worth about .25 euro cents
 
Even at the stratospheric price of the F23 and F35, it'd be hard to imagine Sony offering all F900 owners full retail credit towards the purchase of either one.
Given that, RED is still more than a cut above.
 
Jim said there were 3 big things at nab , epic, scarlet and redray. but he also said there were 3 smaller things. wonder what they were
 
darkkelt said:
this is the sony disease , that thing you didn't like well just buy the new version and all will be cool and by the way some of your accessories might be toast. yes I know sony would never offer a 5k camera even for 40k. but the f23 and f35 was way out of most our ability to purchase anyway.
Click to expand...

Man, with nothing but respect, you need to step back and get some perspective. Ever since this morning, as I started combing the forum for news, I've seen countless posts from you touting everything, especially a 15 stop DR. Such thing does NOT exist and it won't exist for a while, and why is it that it is such a determining factor for you, can you not light your actors and set properly to need such range? I mean, sure I would like that, but it is what it is and if I can't make do with it, then I should choose to get out of the field. RED didn't go out there just to empower the indie crowd as much as it didn't go out there to kiss the studios' arses. They went out to do something revolutionary at many levels, pricing being one of them, but we should not think that they "owe" anybody anything. Respect their right to do as they damn well please. Is RED an amazing tool for $17K? ABSOLUTELY. Could they improve it with better boards, circuitry, filters, etc so that it produces more DR? Sure they could, the F23 beats the RED in DR with only a 1080p sensor, so a bigger/better sensor is not the only way to extract a better image. And if they can improve the image management pathway without a sensor upgrade, then how is that not the "promised" upgradeability they so touted?

A 4K camera for under 20K, a 2/3" camera for under 5K and a monster kicking out a full size, dual SDI signal coming from a 5K sensor for under 40K, how is any of this "elitist", or the "Sony syndrome" or a slap on the face of those who were "promised" anything. I wonder how many of the people complaining about the "sly" tactics of RED have actually a script ready to go into production, or a pilot for a TV program all storyboarded, or a great idea just waiting to be realized, or have, for that matter, put down a deposit with RED? Or how many just prowl this forum like the proverbial "tire kickers" at the car dealerships, dreaming of something they don't have the talent, inclination or testicles to go and pursue, whether the tool to allow them to express their creativity is a RED or a little handycam...
 
Too funny. Why you complain at that moment. At least you get a full 17.5K credit. And who knows if there will be additional credits for preople alredy have a RED one
Red give us what most professional wants.
A really cheep Scarlet
A really fair Mid range Red one which will show improvement during next months. And of cause that is a must !!!!
A really 4K Cam (5K Bayer is nothing else like a 4K) for High end.
Some people do so that Red now will be garbage because of existing a better "RED two"
For the rental hauses. If they do not making the money during 15 Month something wrong with the buisness. And even them can trade in their RED to be up to date with an Epic.
In additonal you should consider. I guess till summer 2009 Redone will be the only cam which will be in the market byside of F35 but thats an other universe.
OK the only people who have to cry are the resevation holders who want to sell there reservation with 10 K profit. Buisness will be down now. I am happy for that. I expected that so we was waiting for our red and rent it for the last production.
 
Rudi Herbert said:
Man, with nothing but respect, you need to step back and get some perspective. Ever since this morning, as I started combing the forum for news, I've seen countless posts from you touting everything, especially a 15 stop DR. Such thing does NOT exist and it won't exist for a while, and why is it that it is such a determining factor for you, can you not light your actors and set properly to need such range? I mean, sure I would like that, but it is what it is and if I can't make do with it, then I should choose to get out of the field. RED didn't go out there just to empower the indie crowd as much as it didn't go out there to kiss the studios' arses. They went out to do something revolutionary at many levels, pricing being one of them, but we should not think that they "owe" anybody anything. Respect their right to do as they damn well please. Is RED an amazing tool for $17K? ABSOLUTELY. Could they improve it with better boards, circuitry, filters, etc so that it produces more DR? Sure they could, the F23 beats the RED in DR with only a 1080p sensor, so a bigger/better sensor is not the only way to extract a better image. And if they can improve the image management pathway without a sensor upgrade, then how is that not the "promised" upgradeability they so touted?

A 4K camera for under 20K, a 2/3" camera for under 5K and a monster kicking out a full size, dual SDI signal coming from a 5K sensor for under 40K, how is any of this "elitist", or the "Sony syndrome" or a slap on the face of those who were "promised" anything. I wonder how many of the people complaining about the "sly" tactics of RED have actually a script ready to go into production, or a pilot for a TV program all storyboarded, or a great idea just waiting to be realized, or have, for that matter, put down a deposit with RED? Or how many just prowl this forum like the proverbial "tire kickers" at the car dealerships, dreaming of something they don't have the talent, inclination or testicles to go and pursue, whether the tool to allow them to express their creativity is a RED or a little handycam...
Click to expand...

Dude,

what I was saying and not personally attacking anybody was the extra expense would have to come with a lot more than just 5k resolution. I happen to think the RED ONE is great and Scarlet is pretty awesome too. what I was a little pissy about was I thought that would stop the RED ONE being upgradable. shawn nelson confirmed thats not true and a sensor swap will be possible. you can't fault a person for having passion. I've been following this for 2 under years just like the rest of you. the forum is for discussion and debate. sometimes fairly heated discussions. when you only get half the information sometimes its a little worrying. without that debate this forum would be a useless praise palace.
 
Wow. I mean just wow.

Okay. Did you love your red one and the images it produced yesterday? Where you excited about build 16 and what new toys it will bring? (which incidentally, in my eyes build 16 is an upgrade)

Do you still stand by the RED One versus a cine alta, varicam, dalsa, genesis etc?

Did your camera manufacturer just offer you FULL TRADE IN VALUE for your investment if you want to go up to the next level?

Then what the hell are you worried about?

We all still have a great camera in our hands that they are surely (trust me) going to continue to develop into a better one. What is wrong with them taking the knowledge that they have garnered from creating the RED ONE and making new cameras of varying flavors to suit the varying degrees of this industry. If they don't do that, then the competition certainly will. Then the competition will drive them out of business and you will receive nothing more from RED. Greedy indeed.

If you will forgive me I would like to take this conversation back a second to the phrase "FULL TRADE IN VALUE." Have you ever in any walk of life ever been offered that before. (for a non defective, opened item) On any product, let alone technology. Seriously... ever?

When you bought your car? Or perhaps that new TV. Your jeans, after you cut the tags and wore them around town? Your house? Surely your computer. Maybe your cell phone?

That is an unprecedented offer.

We now take you back to "what this means for you."

Number one. The industry and the world will not stand still and if you thought buying this camera was going to "make" your rental business for the next five years then I am sorry for you but you are wrong.

Number two. The same demographic that has latched on to RED will still be using RED ONE because they can not or do not want to afford EPIC. So the same indie culture will still float around this camera. In fact it will grow as the individuals who could not swing RED ONE will now have a chance with scarlet.

Number 3 The big boys need EPIC. I love the RED ONE and stand behind it as it is right now, but RED has to keep pushing the envelope. There are some monsters in the dark that would love nothing more than to tear this company to small bloody bits. There is hope that they wont try. RED is simply stepping up to the plate to fight for their slice of the kingdom. Everything you see here is good and worth it.

Now, I am not going to sit here and say RED can do no wrong. For example, the cast parts are crap in my eyes. But opening up a line of cameras is far from a dark omen. They will still develop each in their own right as they each target a different bracket. When Sony came out with the F23 did they stop making / supporting the F900's?

My advice is simple. You don't want to pay the cost to swap up to the EPIC don't. Your RED ONE is still worth every penny.

-e-
 
I can't believe that everyone would just not be happy for what tools we've been offered the opportunity to buy. I've been buying cameras for years now and each year something new, bigger and better came along, I've spent so much money over the years on this camera and that.

You have so many choices now, be happy, stop complaining, I'm tired of hearing it, I don't post very much and just read and learn from the forums but today was such a great day, I'm so glad that I put my money down last year and can't wait for the RED Team to ship out my RED ONE to me hopefully by June. I find it INCREDIBLE that Jim and his team would offer a upgrade to EPIC and give the purchasers of RED ONE FULL CREDIT for their camera to upgrade to EPIC IF THEY SO CHOOSE. WOULD SONY OR PANASONIC DO THIS???? HAVE THEY EVER. You all should thank Jim and company for giving you a tool to make beautiful imaging with. What they have done is beyond belief in customer service in my eyes.

It truly boggles my mind sometimes to the negative and disappointed posts in RED that I read. Give me a break, post positive remarks, and if you don't want your camera give us people further down the line the opportunity to get their camera sooner.

Congratulations to Jim, the RED team for giving us beautiful new tools to get great imaging with!

Please send my camera when you've time. By the way, I'll take two Scarlet cameras when you have them available.

Thanks!!!!
 
This is Silly.

If you have a business model that supports buying one or more 40k cameras you'll buy it. It's cheap for what it does. The additional cost does not matter if you can make it up in rentals.

If you are thinking about buying the camera because it sounds cool and someday you are going to make a feature and be the hero of Sundance and if it's not shot in 5k people might run out of the theater - you should change your medication. ( and get off this forum and back to work on that script )

Just a tool guys, like a hammer. Seriously. If it bothers you that someone has a shinier hammer, you can easily get even by building something great with your slightly less shiny one.

I await your camera agnostic greatness.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
Ocean Imaging said:
I can't believe that everyone would just not be happy for what tools we've been offered the opportunity to buy. I've been buying cameras for years now and each year something new, bigger and better came along, I've spent so much money over the years on this camera and that.

You have so many choices now, be happy, stop complaining, I'm tired of hearing it, I don't post very much and just read and learn from the forums but today was such a great day, I'm so glad that I put my money down last year and can't wait for the RED Team to ship out my RED ONE to me hopefully by June. I find it INCREDIBLE that Jim and his team would offer a upgrade to EPIC and give the purchasers of RED ONE FULL CREDIT for their camera to upgrade to EPIC IF THEY SO CHOOSE. WOULD SONY OR PANASONIC DO THIS???? HAVE THEY EVER. You all should thank Jim and company for giving you a tool to make beautiful imaging with. What they have done is beyond belief in customer service in my eyes.

It truly boggles my mind sometimes to the negative and disappointed posts in RED that I read. Give me a break, post positive remarks, and if you don't want your camera give us people further down the line the opportunity to get their camera sooner.

Congratulations to Jim, the RED team for giving us beautiful new tools to get great imaging with!

Please send my camera when you've time. By the way, I'll take two Scarlet cameras when you have them available.

Thanks!!!!
Click to expand...

Ocean i like your post I really do. I think it right on except for this: you hit the nail on the head when you wrote that all these years buying cameras something new and better always comes along. I think most people are upset because the camera was promoted and sold as rendering obsolescence obsolete. That there was no need to ever worry again about purchasing a new camera. For a modest price just upgrade the REd One and you are at the top again.

Also I've seen this alot: I am currently working on a big hollywood film shooting with the Panavision Genisis. Thats only a 1080p camera. I keep hearing of tests with the REd and Genisis and the DP's choose the Genesis all the time . Why can't REDs 4k overcome this cam? I think people were hoping more effort was put into getting the REd to that level of adoration and acceptance. The Epic seems like a diversion when resolution seems to not be a factor for professional shooters. I think the Epic is an attempt to get the Genisis users over to RED side with resolution and "epic" adornments that most thought would be modular upgrades on their Red ones.

It also seems to many that the RED one now will only be considered an Indie filmmakers cam and the Epic a pros camera.

Now the total resale value is great and tremendous to current REd owners. We have had no confirmation of the Epic price There may be a surprise for Red One owners that the cost of moving up isn't that bad.

I'm sure Jim Jannard knew full well people would have this reaction. I expect that he will give his full view on things soon. I suggest you wait until then to get upset but I understand their frustration after getting their cams so soon.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top