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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Reel numbers/Force Reel (revisited)

K

Kenn Michael

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Using the latest release version of the firmware (15 - 2.2.1)... I'm still not consistently getting consecutive reel numbers.

I had this problem on earlier builds, but it's still not working for me over here.

I'm only working on one project frame rate (23.98), but I change shooting formats (4K 2:1, 3K 2:1, etc...) when varispeeding.

I have to force reel everytime I format a card.

If I start with Reel 1, putting in a previously used, but ready to reformat CF, results in either Reel 1 (after formatting) or the next number up from what the preformatted card was assigned.

Is this user error? I should be able to force reel at the beginning of the day (or project) then for every card I format, the reel number increases (after format) +1 from the last roll I recorded on right?
 
As I've said before, I don't think the camera should ever reset the reel count on it's own - that should only be user-initiated, and even then it should be able to be reset to a user-defined number (not necessarily back to 1).

Also, the 'auto format' should prompt you with the reel number it's going to assign and give you the option (with a little up/down flick of the joystick) to increment or decrement the number.
 
Dylan, that is a good system when dealing with a well organized, multi-person shoot where the AC has time to set the reel between mag changes, but in a run-n-gun situation where quick mag changes are necessary, having duplicate reel numbers that cause issues in post (especially with QT proxies).

Until there is another quantifier in the naming system that doesn't rely on reel/date, having those non-duplicate automatically incrementing reel numbers are very important...

I like the idea of a preference option - automatic reel numbering and manual reel numbering. Everybody's happy! :)
 
Force Reel

Force Reel

I'm only working on one project frame rate (23.98), but I change shooting formats (4K 2:1, 3K 2:1, etc...) when varispeeding.

I have to force reel everytime I format a card.
Click to expand...

Why Kenn ?
 
because if I don't force reel, the camera never will never give me the expected +1 reel number. It'll go all the way back to 1, or +1 the reel that I'm erasing.

Hope that makes sense. I think the camera gets confused once I load a card that still has footage on it (with a reel number already assigned) with a non-contiguous reel number.

Should I be pre-erasing the card in the computer before letting the camera format it?
 
I would absolutely LOVE an option to have the camera ask me what reel I want to use every time I format. Hell the camera can prompt me with what it thinks is right, and all I have to do is press "go". But give me a choice.

Just make it work like a film camera system, the DP's are used to it, the AC's are used to it, the script girl is used to it. If I could use my sharpie on the files I would.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE fix this.
 
I'd imagine a scenario where the camera says "Formatting as Reel 003" and you can click 'Yes' or 'Alter' and choose a different number. Yes is the default.

Important things, to my mind, are:
- Adding more descriptors to filename to avoid overwrite situations.
- Camera never resets internal reel count itself - only user initiated.
 
I was thinking more like "FORMAT THIS REEL AS: |0|0|3|" and all I'd have to do to change it would spin the joystick to what number I want and press in to start formating. (003 inside a selection dial) If the number was correct I'd just push the joystick and be done.
 
an easy fix for duplicate reel numbers ( and it has worked since the first build on 8/31/07) change the freaken camera letter...no more duplicates! if you change formats more than 26 times in a 24 hour period, you should fire your AD.
 
The "force reel" menu needs to be redesigned. The checkbox just doesn't make the changes obvious. As it stands, you must check the box, roll the joystick to your selected reel and then reformat the magazine. It's a bummer.

There need to be two buttons and a reel selector. First select the reel, then click either "force all reels" [which would force the reel to your selected number and continue the sequence afterwards] or "force individual reel" [which would force the reel to your selected number but return to the prior sequence afterwards].

For example:

Camera just shot A004. I put in a card which I want to be A009. I put in the card [camera labels it A005], go to the force reel menu and select A009. I select the "force individual reel" button. The camera relabels the empty card from A005 to A009. I shoot out the card and reload. The next empty card I put in is labeled A005 by the camera.

Or, conversely...

Camera just shot A004. I wrap one project and start on another, wishing to start with A001 again. I put in the card [camera labels it A005], go to the force reel menu and select A001. I select the "force all reels" button. The camera relabels the empty card from A005 to A001. I shoot out the card and reload. The next empty card I put in is labeled A002 by the camera.

These should be two separate buttons and not checkboxes. A button gets a result, a checkbox toggles an option. Since I see this as more of a result operation, a checkbox doesn't make sense to me.

Furthermore, I should be able to change the mag reel number without reformatting the magazine. I can change the camera letter without reformatting... why can't I change the reel number? Formatting isn't a big deal on CF cards, but it takes 30-60 seconds on a RED DRIVE. All of this should be able to happen instantly.

Thoughts?
 
Brook, when you say "Camera just shot A004..." and when you put the next card in, the camera labels it A005... Is that an empty card you're putting in, or does the cam label it A005 after you format it?

If I put in a card that had footage on it (say like from the previous day of shooting) and the card itself was labeled A009 when I shot on it previously, the cam reads A009, then when I format it, it may either go to A001 (without using Force Reel) or go to A010 instead of A005.

I may have to try completely wiping the card before putting it in the camera to format it.
 
It's all theoretical. If we had build 13 on the camera for the sake of this discussion, the camera would finish shooting A004, we'd reload by putting in an unformatted mag, the camera would prompt me to format, I'd format, and we'd end up with A005.

The build 15 issues are another story. I'm just dreaming about a complete redesign of the "force reel" menu. If they're in there fixing bugs... they're just polishing something that doesn't work as well as it should. I'd vote for a complete redesign rather than bug fixes.
 
All this would be a mute point if we could just confirm the Reel number before the camera formats any media. It wouldn't add any time to the formating operation, it'd still be a single click, or if you want to change it a spin and click.
 
True, that's fine in some situations... but it still means that changing reels requires a reformat. With that taking 30-60 seconds on a RED DRIVE [where the camera cannot be used for framing or lighting...], I still find it unacceptable.
 
I was unaware it was possible to re-lable without a format.
 
I think the numbering of Reels should be a manual thing with a dialog asking you to confirm the number giving you reference to the last number used.

This will help numbering to remain constant and you know where you are up to.

The LED on the back of the camera also needs to display the Reel & Clip like the LCD as it only displays this info while you're recording.
 
roryhinds said:
I think the numbering of Reels should be a manual thing with a dialog asking you to confirm the number giving you reference to the last number used.

This will help numbering to remain constant and you know where you are up to.

The LED on the back of the camera also needs to display the Reel & Clip like the LCD as it only displays this info while you're recording.
Click to expand...


EXACTLY!
 
Here's an idea: have the camera look for an XML file at the root level of a newly inserted magazine, which could contain instructions/information put there by a desktop media ingest/management tool. So, for instance, the file could tell the camera that the footage on the mag had been successfully downloaded, and the mag should be reformatted as A009.

This would allow for mag numbering to be centrally controlled (even on multi-camera shoots) by whoever was managing media on-set, rather than leaving it up to camera operators.
 
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