Wages Of Big Hit DP's

[chuckt]

Personally, I think the everyday fear of sending your film to the lab will be replaced someday by the everyday fear of dumping the contents of your on-camera recorders to LTO tapes and hard drives and hoping seven months in the future or so when you do the D.I. that all the footage is retrievable and convertible from RAW to RGB...

Well said. I have heard of film cans surviving office fires and floods, lost in wilderness and buried under snow. Film is pretty resiliant. Film is self archiving. I have lost many a reels of unreplaceable digital content by disk crash and computer malfunction and electrical surges and magnetic fields. Considering the cost of proper archiving for 100 years, the cost of digital files is astronomical. I can pick up a film can that was forgotten in the shelves of a defunct studio 100 years ago and retrieve the movie.

The cost of making the film is also highly exaggerated. The poorest countries in the world do not make many movies. When they do, they make it in film. Cheap, used Arri cameras and cheap film stock are available all over the world. A pair of scissors and some scotch tape would be enough to edit film. An ancient carbon arc projector or a hand cranked viewer can display film even in the middle of jungle.

Sorry for candidly talking about film. I know this forum is only for praising RED and worshipping Jim. RED has its place. By 2013 KODAK or FUJI won't be making film any more. They both have started shutting down their manufacturing facilities. KODAK may go under first. Both companies are looking for alternate businesses for survival. So far RED is the fastest growing camera comapny in the world. At this rate, there will be a 'RED in every garage, and FCP on every desktop' by end of this year. KODAK's projection of 'end-of-film' may come sooner than 2013 !

 

[Paul Hazlett]

what you say is true now, with the current state of digital tachnology,
but by 2013 we may have a high speed flash drive type units that hold 100
gbs of media on non-volital sticks that can be plugged into the cheap laptop
of the future.

As the rest of technology catches up with Red we will see better archiving
system.

I hope

 

[laguun]

Sorry for candidly talking about film. I know this forum is only for praising RED and worshipping Jim. RED has its place. By 2013 KODAK or FUJI won't be making film any more. They both have started shutting down their manufacturing facilities. KODAK's projection of 'end-of-film' may come sooner than 2013 !

"Soon, I'm not going to be answering questions about film because I won't know. It will be too small for me to get involved."
Antonio Perez, CEO Kodak
source: FT.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/36d7f414-8e10-11da-8fda-0000779e2340.html

 

[laguun]

Hi Laguun,
When? I was never speaking about everything!
Stephen

Hi,
I would have thought if you were shooting a $100,000 commercial show reel then film would probably be the medium of choice.
Stephen

Ok, probably misunderstood the above post then.

 

[Jamie Metzger]

You should spend half of that $100,000 on film school. And not because you need the education, but because you can have access to free labor, and free equipment, and then you can shoot many projects with high production value, instead of one really expensive one.

 

[Chris Nuzzaco]

100K would let you easily shoot at least 10 really nice, high quality short films if you approach writing a script from a DP/real world logistics side of things angle.

 

[Jason Sinclair]

or take a year off and do as many low budget features as possible for other people... That way you can say i have done 3 features. If you look for interesting scripts who knows, you may hit one of those rare winners and land in tinseltown.

 

[Jonas Nyström]

I boost my earnings with taking care of pre production, script development, and post production. I guess i earn 4-5 times more then if I only sold production days. And I think it's fun. Happy days!

 

[Tail Ends]

From a producer/director's point of view, you are all missing a couple of important issues. Aside from left brain skill and right brained talent, you need to be likeable and have the respect of other crew members. And you need to have the social graces and intelligence to be able to communicate with clients and actors. Self confidence allows you to do some salesmanship or self promotion, but a lot of people out there simply can't do any of that.

As for compensation, when you're younger, you need to sacrifice today to live better tomorrow. Those good looking gals that work at Sotheby's, Christie's and most of the fashion houses start out as trainees and get paid ZERO. What's more, there is a waiting list for those jobs. Talent agencies have a slew of people wanting to break in doing grunt work and get paid near ZERO. I started off as a trainee earning $500 per month! The international company I worked for philosophy's was to just pay you enough for gas and very modest living. At the end of six months, you were out or you were earning five figures a month plus. It was the best decision I ever made.

The point of all this is that there are always opportunities out there if you hustle and make doing a good job take priority over pay. Pay will follow if you show that you know how to sacrifice a bit and that you show you know how to follow instructions, have a good work ethic, be a team player and be enjoyable to be around. Just putting in the hours and clocking out doesn't gain much attention from decision makers. It's what you do in those hours that count. Are you adding value to the project or just waiting for the next food break? What have you done today that would make someone like me want you back tomorrow? Work with that thought and you'll be getting your bucks, but more importantly, the respect of those who pay your wages. This is not always easy under the various guild rules, but always try.

That might sound like preaching, but it's true.

Tail Ends

 

[Nova Invicta]

Trends

Trends

We have seen a gradual change from film first in 16mm now in 35mm towards digital. The shows shooting digitally shoot on either 2/3rds or 35mm sensor cameras with Red making respectable inroads in 2008. One size however doesnt fit all as each medium still has its plus & minus points take for instance high speed the Phantom HD camera has made big dents in the photosonics arena and the likes of D-20/21, Genesis or Red would not have been suitable. The new Kodak stocks Vision 3 has rejuvienated the film die-hard cameramen so its horses for courses.
DPs typically earn £ 1-3K as jobbing cameramen per day on commercials with high end DPs going higher on bigger jobs.
Be warned however that just as Red cameras are cheaper the agencies & production companies are expecting the associated labor to be equally cheaper!

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Either a DP is good at what they do (making images) or they aren't -- the particular piece of equipment used is secondary, though of course you have to learn how to use it. But there are no "Red DP's" anymore than there are "Kodak DP's" versus "Fuji DP's" versus "HDCAM DP's" versus "DVCPRO HD DP's" versus "HDCAM-SR DP's" versus "Viper DP's" versus "Phantom DP's" -- either you are a good DP or you aren't.

And when do I know that? I have no DP experience with film (the format) only prosumer cameras with adapters. Still I have been praised for my images I've accomplished with it and people say I have "the eye" and "talent" for it.
I've done some pure DP works for theatre plays wink: ) (scenes that are projected in between and during the play) which has confirmed that I can earn money through my work with images and it is my primary income (though barely enough to live by).
I have been working as a still photographer on a few portrait sessions and I've did som freework for bigger names in the industry just to get contacts.

Still, I have no idea if I'm any good at it. I learn more each time I worked and I'm no way near the "thousands of project experience" that can give the producer the confidence to let me have total artistic freedom and a paycheck that is enough to pay the daily lunch.

What happens next is that I get a chance to work with minimal pay as the editor for a feature film... an area that I seem to have talent for but something I haven't really focused on as much as my cinematography, screenwriting and directing. Life has it's weird turn of events, I make a shortfilm, people like the cinematography but I get the prizes in editing and a chance to work on a feature film as one...

I'm starting up my own freelance company to work as a DP, director, editor or all that in a package whatever the customer likes. I'm sure I will do alot of industry videos and commercials for companies with minimal budget but am I ready to say: "Hey, here I am! A fresh green talanted DP at you service with alot of experience with prosumer 35mm-adapter but eager to work with bigger production bucks and crewmembers older and more experienced then me"?

I know that as artists you evolve until the day you die unless your name is Uwe Boll. But when am I ready to work as a DP and present myself as one to producers and such?

Even though my camera experience is limited in the area of technology, I know or at least have been told that I have an eye for lightning and images...
Is that enough? Who will judge? By what when each project is it's own?

Major line or question for the self and others: when do I know when I am ready? When do I know when I have the skills required?
Or is everything based upon jumping without a safenet and hopefully fall into the pipe that doesn't have the hungry sharks in them...?

I have one feet on each side: One on the side of amateur filmmaking and one on the professional side making a living by it... then the toes of the latter foot is touching the world of the really big league of filmmaking.

With my lack of format experience am I still experienced enough to work as a DP based on my extensive work with the format I have, my studies in the field and my own developed theories and philosophy of cinematography?


Sorry if I made this post into a bit of a personal journey, but I think the general question is how I and others like me know that we are ready to ask for a certain paycheck and get the job done.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

Most people don't start at the top anyway, especially DP's, so you'll have plenty of opportunities to shoot and gain confidence and experience. There really isn't a hard line where you think you've a "real DP". I've shot over thirty features and am now in the ASC... and I still ask my wife if she thinks what I shot "looks like a real movie" or not. I feel like a lifelong student.

You try and get work which is one small step beyond your abilities so you'll have a chance to grow and learn. You don't just want to do what you've already mastered before, you want a challenge. The trick is getting a producer to take a chance on you.

 

[conrad gaunt]

That sounds more rational.

Then blow the rest on coke and hookers.

or

Play the lens market with your spare capital. Buy and sell (4 profit of course). The lenses WILL need testing on your R1 of course for quality assurance, post some images taken with each lens when selling, and buy carefully!

 

[Daniel Browning]

I've shot over thirty features and am now in the ASC... and I still ask my wife if she thinks what I shot "looks like a real movie" or not. I feel like a lifelong student.

That made me laugh! I'll try to remember that when I'm in the theater watching your next feature film. It's the type of attitude that improves more and faster than its opposite. Good advice for any endeavor.

 

[RedRay]

Wow 10k a day? Is that US dollars? Top commercial DPs here in Asia earn about 1k to 2k a day only. Some may have earned 3k tops but that's rare. Cost of living here is cheaper of course. And since we have smaller markets, hence we have smaller industries and intense competition, so very few actually get a break. On the other hand, the first world has developed so much that there are so many people now who want/are learning to be DPs/filmmakers so despite having bigger industries and markets, there are also just too many competing to get positions.