Red on Tyler Mount in Helicopter

[Jamie Metzger]

why wouldn't the drive be ok in the heli mount? if the whole rig is gyro stabilized well enough to provide a very still frame, why would the drive be exposed to excessive vibration?
I'm just trying to understand so I don't mess up a heli shot if I ever do one.

Good point. I can see the altitude pressure as a potential problem, but when I did an aerial shoot, we didn't go very high at all.

I'm no 4k ninja, but I think the drive should be fine, you can even put some padding in the extra space between the bracket mount, if you are really nervous.

I'm trying to think if the nose mount would allow you to run the AC cable through to the pit, but then how would you run the video cables? Definitely do not use battery power . You should be able to tri-tap off the 720p Bnc connector, since you will most likely be using smaller monitors.

A heli pilot might like a monitor so he/she can see what and how you are shooting so they can help you with in-air moves.

The most important part of shooting in a heli (especially if hand holding), is communicating with the pilot before you get off the ground. Once you are in the air, it's almost impossible to talk creatively.

Jamie

 

[Steve Gal]

Thanks for all of your responses. Your information has been very helpful. I am going to rig a cable release for manual remote start and stop. The 720P HD-SDI output will go to 2 or 3 Panasonic BT-LH900's looped through with Anton Bauer batteries on each. One for Pilot, 1 or 2 for passengers. The Red Drive I feel can work if we take a pillow or something puffy and padded to battle the vibration and other frame dropping shit. We can Camera tape it to the top rods since there should be enough top clearance. If the first test flight is not OK, then we can switch to the CF cards for last resort. Does this sound doable?

 

[CJ Roy]

Thanks for all of your responses. Your information has been very helpful. I am going to rig a cable release for manual remote start and stop. The 720P HD-SDI output will go to 2 or 3 Panasonic BT-LH900's looped through with Anton Bauer batteries on each. One for Pilot, 1 or 2 for passengers. The Red Drive I feel can work if we take a pillow or something puffy and padded to battle the vibration and other frame dropping shit. We can Camera tape it to the top rods since there should be enough top clearance. If the first test flight is not OK, then we can switch to the CF cards for last resort. Does this sound doable?

It's worth a shot, but I've been up in a helicopter rig, WITH stabilization and we still dropped frames. Good luck.

I am very curious to see how the skew holds up on the Tyler nose... Let us know.

 

[CJ Roy]

Oh, one more thing. Shoot 2:1, not 16:9. Redcine doesn't like dropped frames.

 

[Steve Gal]

Gotcha. Thanks for the help. So Redcine will render 2:1 with dropped frames?

 

[CJ Roy]

Gotcha. Thanks for the help. So Redcine will render 2:1 with dropped frames?

No, but RedAlert will. Redcine will just report an error and stop the rendering. RedAlert will blast through, with the result looking like a stutter when it gets to the drop frames.

Usually what happens is that the drive doesn't drop just one or two frames here and there, it drops big blocks of them all over. Dependent on the vibration.

 

[Mark Andersen]

I am shooting form a Heli in Hawaii in a couple of weeks, we plan to go low budget, shooting hand-held with the door off. Is this a good idea? anyone have any advice. I hoping to arc around my subjects and not just shoot everything going bye. the camera will be on my lap or ?. Will I still have vibration issues with the Red drive? I am new at this heli thing, any advise would be appreciated.

 

[CJ Roy]

I am shooting form a Heli in Hawaii in a couple of weeks, we plan to go low budget, shooting hand-held with the door off. Is this a good idea? anyone have any advice. I hoping to arc around my subjects and not just shoot everything going bye. the camera will be on my lap or ?. Will I still have vibration issues with the Red drive? I am new at this heli thing, any advise would be appreciated.

I'd say vibration would still be an issue, especially with the doors off. But since both you and the camera are inside, you could pad and secure the drive in some foam.

 

[Phil Bates]

Phil, seen the footage that Tony Monk (NZ Heli Cine guy) makes with his CineGyro systems? I worked on one of his demo reels once - that system is pretty amazing.

www.tonymonkfilms.com

I'd love to put a RED in that thing... Need the SSD to come about first I reckon. Although it's smooth as, so maybe a Drive in there would work.

I'll check out the link, thanks. I have not used the Cineflex (I assume it's the same as the Cinegyro). I've had good luck with the Gyron with no complaints except for holding the horizon. They've supposedly fixed that issue in the next rev. My DPs who use both say that the Gyron is more robust, and that on the long end of the lens it tracks smoother. Still, they both have their strengths.

Phil
www.artbeats.com

 

[Dylan Reeve]

Yeah, that's Cineflex... I've seen a bit of Wescam stuff as well, but the stuff Tony does with his cameras is insane. I don't know how much of it is the system, and how much is his operators, but the outcome is fantastic. I've worked on corporate vids with his stuff in it (companies that have too much money) and never been disappointed - no vibration, no weird off-axis stuff, no body roll.

No idea if it can accommodate a RED though - his rig has a Sony HD camera head in it, huge lens and a HDCAM SR recorder in the helicopter.

 

[Mark Pedersen]

I'd use build 13 if I were you. Build 14 and 15 sporadically kill takes sometimes. Using 15 will earn you nothing that you won't have in 13 beyond higher frame rates and RC36.

Brook,

So that's a little tidbit I hadn't seen. "Sporadically kills takes?". That should be the last thing a recording software does.

So 13 is the only build we can trust? When will we have a stable build that enables all features and doesn't eat footage?

Imagine turning to someone with a film camera and saying..."Oh by the way, the camera occasionally, randomly, without warning eats footage."

Not exactly a confidence builder. I know, 15 and 16 are BETA. But geeze, let's not have our beta builds destroying takes. A few bugs here and there... something annoying, but not destructive. Especially when 15 is the first to enable multiple monitors...

My camera's due in a couple of weeks, a major job coming up. PLEASE get 16 release (not beta) out by NAB! Or at least 15.

thx,

M

 

[Wes Printz]

MAX length on eSATA is 2 meters. Any longer than that you may run into data integrity issues. Spinning disk drives and vibration don't mix well.

Been working with a crew here lately that wanted to go with the drive in a helicopter, we discussed all sorts of dampening solutions, but when the words "it may work" came up that was no longer an option. they decided to go with the the CF cards. They can't take that risk.

I did supply them with some Preston cables. Also currently doing another run of the Remote Switches I've been shipping, have 3 more going out this week.

 

[Dylan Reeve]

Any idea what sort of rig they were using Wes?

The more I think about it, the more I want to find out if the Tony Monk can fly a RED in his Cinegyro system.

 

[reality]

My camera's due in a couple of weeks, a major job coming up. PLEASE get 16 release (not beta) out by NAB! Or at least 15.

Rushing out a beta usually means that you leave bugs in that you know about or haven't had enough time to find. Beta means anything and everything can happen because it hasn't been tested enough and gone through the 'fix' stage.
Beta on any hardware or software is universally understood to mean 'don't use on a paying job' and the purpose of a beta is precisely to find the bugs like data disappearing.

 

[Brook Willard]

Yeah mark, I'd say once in every two days of shooting with build 14, a take will hold on the "POST" mode after cutting for 30 seconds [run light will stay illuminated] and the camera will eventually crash. Sometimes half of that take is ok, but it's usually gone altogether.

It's a beta firmware, things like this are to be expected. It's a bummer when the stable firmware is two versions [and many important features] behind the betas, but on productions that aren't willing to accept the risk... play it safe!

 

[Jamie Metzger]

I am shooting form a Heli in Hawaii in a couple of weeks, we plan to go low budget, shooting hand-held with the door off. Is this a good idea? anyone have any advice. I hoping to arc around my subjects and not just shoot everything going bye. the camera will be on my lap or ?. Will I still have vibration issues with the Red drive? I am new at this heli thing, any advise would be appreciated.

CF cards all the way. If you are hanging out the door, you are going to want at minimum 2 gyros for vertical and horizontal stabilization. They are worth the money, trust me.

I posted earlier that I didn't think vibration would be a problem with the RED Drive, but that was for the nose mount, and I think i was still wrong. My bad.

Having multiple CF cards would be a great idea. Try to find out how long you will be in the air, and add cards appropriately depending on your Resolution.

Also, bring a bungie for your camera and tie it to the helicopter and your handle. a 48" bungie will do.

 

[Steve Gal]

Job checked out today and hopefully the shots go well from the Tyler mount. We rigged up a cable release with the help from Evan Grant's photo's. Thank you for this Evan. This really works beautifully and is so simple. We powered the camera from a Lemo to 4-pin power cable that I made and then went from 4-pin to anton bauer adapter to a Hytron 140 which will sit in the cockpit. We went with build 13 since I have heard some build 15 problems and didn't want to chance it. Compact flash cards are gonna be used so no issues for dropped frames I hope. Wish us luck.