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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red on Tyler Mount in Helicopter

Steve Gal

Steve Gal

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I have a shoot coming up this week that needs to go in a Tyler mount. Any suggestions. They want to use 3 monitors and need a remote. I also need the long LCD Cable. I was gonna load up build 15 even though it is still in Beta. I need some help quickly since the customer is very concerned.
 
It's a tyler nose mount and they want to shoot to Red Drive. They also want to see in the cockpit the image and if the camera is recording or not. Also trigger options. Manual trigger?
 
RED Drive it perhaps iffy in a helicopter mount, although it should be fine given that it's all gyro stabilised. The HD-SDI outputs (in my experience) with Build 15 provided the information you need.

ViewFactor has their new remote - maybe you could get one rushed to you? Otherwise look around, there's been a few circuits posted for building your own basic REC triggers.
 
I wouldn't trust the RED DRIVE in a helicopter mount... you might consider building a 10' eSATA cable [is that even possible?] and keep the drive in the cockpit.

As for the display, the 720p HD-SDI output will show you your image, the look-around area and whether or not the camera is rolling. You can turn zebras on for judging exposure.

Preston makes a start/stop cable for the FIZ built for the RED. Just order that and hook it to the helicopter mount's FIZ.

The RED DRIVE is the only issue you have. I just don't see it working without dropping frames... even in a gyro mount.

Also be aware that hard drives don't like to work in situations where air pressure changes significantly. If you're just going to a few thousand feet it'll be fine, but if you're going much higher [in a short period of time], the hard drives may freak out. It's not likely to induce a rapid enough pressure change in a helicopter, but it's worth knowing.

The CF card will be similar to a 400' mag - exactly what they'd be using if they were shooting film with the mount. The only other option would be to build your own flash drive [by completely voiding your RED DRIVE's warranty and risking potential catastrophic data loss].

I'd use build 13 if I were you. Build 14 and 15 sporadically kill takes sometimes. Using 15 will earn you nothing that you won't have in 13 beyond higher frame rates and RC36.
 
Depends on the electrical level. For standard SATA that has just been 'externalised' it's only about 60cm I think - for full, higher current genuine eSATA the maximum length is something like 2m. I don't know what is employed on the RED One.
 
Brook Willard said:
I wouldn't trust the RED DRIVE in a helicopter mount... you might consider building a 10' eSATA cable [is that even possible?] and keep the drive in the cockpit.
Click to expand...


why wouldn't the drive be ok in the heli mount? if the whole rig is gyro stabilized well enough to provide a very still frame, why would the drive be exposed to excessive vibration?
I'm just trying to understand so I don't mess up a heli shot if I ever do one.
 
I personally wasn't involved in our Tyler mount day, so it very well may be stable enough. I just know that the RED DRIVE has no shock mounting, so it makes me rather nervous.
 
Sycophant said:
RED Drive it perhaps iffy in a helicopter mount, although it should be fine given that it's all gyro stabilised. The HD-SDI outputs (in my experience) with Build 15 provided the information you need.

ViewFactor has their new remote - maybe you could get one rushed to you? Otherwise look around, there's been a few circuits posted for building your own basic REC triggers.
Click to expand...

Viewfactor's site says the cable won't be shipping until May? Anyone have any leads on remote on/off cables that are available now?

Dylan Macleod
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmacleod.com
 
s816mm35mm said:
I have a shoot coming up this week that needs to go in a Tyler mount. Any suggestions. They want to use 3 monitors and need a remote. I also need the long LCD Cable. I was gonna load up build 15 even though it is still in Beta. I need some help quickly since the customer is very concerned.

It's a tyler nose mount and they want to shoot to Red Drive. They also want to see in the cockpit the image and if the camera is recording or not. Also trigger options. Manual trigger?
Click to expand...

Even though the Tyler middle mounts have 2 gyros, the nose mounts have none. You'll get both low and high frequency vibrations which will cause a huge amount of dropped frames on the Red-Drive. (Also play havoc with image skew)

You can buy remote start/stop triggers from Pana-Tech, here on the forums, or I think are some other 3rd party companies coming out soon. Pana-Tech made ours, works great.

You don't need the extension for the Red-LCD, just go through the 3 SDI outs on the camera. They will all have the reel # and indicate when they're recording by the timecode turning red. Also, keep in mind that you'll most likely need a down-converter for the nose mount's control system. We've been using AJA's for helicopter & plane aerials.
 
I was just about to say that the Tyler nose mount has no stabilization system (no gyros), and yes the ones I have used have only had SD monitors in the control box. (I have just taped a Panny HD monitor over it though in the past)
 
Tyler nose mounts can shake like a mo-fo! Particularly if not set up perfectly. Try to get a tech that is familiar with the nose mount and use as wide a lens as possible. Definitely use the C.F. card.

Richard
 
I lost a lot of 35mm footage on a tyler mount nose shoot due to vibration. Over 80% was unusable, and that was SD, not HD. We were probably using a 20mm lens, it was wide but can't remember the exact focal length. The vibration was worse looking down vs horizontal. The ship was an A-Star.

We shot for almost a week up and down the West Coast without getting dalies. I trusted a test shoot we did with a Tyler nose mount on a Jet Ranger the week before, which turned out OK. It was a dark day in telecine, Artbeat's worst loss ever, I figured around $80K. Definitely went to school on that one.

Are you sure you want to go that route?

Phil
www.artbeats.com
 
The Tyler nose mount is not gyro stabilized and it is not recommended to use any focal length longer than 32mm on it. What helicopter is being used? Have the rotor blades been recently rebalanced? Helicopters can create high frequency shake that can wreak havoc with electronics. Use a helicopter and pilot with film industry experience. The pilot is your dolly grip.

Be prepared to power your monitors from batteries as accessory power from a helicopter can be tricky. You could downconvert the signal? Seems like focus pulling won't be required? The tyler's little console monitor is SD.

Hard drive sounds like a risky option. If you have to do it keep the drive inside the cockpit on someones lap and monitor it.

I don't know if he's gotten it approved by the FAA yet (I've used it out of country and it's great) but the helicopter rigging specialist I use has figured out a way to mount a Libra head (Gyro stabilized, 3-Axis) onto the tyler mount infrastructure. Might be a better option.
 
Phil, seen the footage that Tony Monk (NZ Heli Cine guy) makes with his CineGyro systems? I worked on one of his demo reels once - that system is pretty amazing.

www.tonymonkfilms.com

I'd love to put a RED in that thing... Need the SSD to come about first I reckon. Although it's smooth as, so maybe a Drive in there would work.
 
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