focus assist: Make it better

[Andrew Antoniewicz]

As for line width.. im still not super-convinced the lines need to be wider...

I just wanted to add a small push into this, I have the common form of male linked color blindness (6% of males). This makes seeing thin red lines in a grey field almost impossible. For instance I could not see anything other than a grey field in your example picture.

For me to be able to use the focus feature I would have to either (1) be able to change the color to something I can see in thin lines like a yellow or blue or (2) be able to have thicker red lines so that my eyes can pick up the red once there is more saturation.

Now there is no chance I will be controlling your wonderful camera anytime in the near future so it begs the question of whether this change would be useful for anyone actually using the camera. I leave that up to Red to decide if the development time/issues warrant a modification.

 

[laguun]

oh boy.. without the bitching REDUSER would halt to 3 posts a day

hmm, you could add a "bitchin about past things" subforum

but as of now, we still have enough topics in postpro for some time... open up the redcode finally, so we can bith about other companies products

 

[Jesse Rosten]

Nerdicus - Perhaps this is why I'm not seeing the red either. Damn you recessive gene! Red, can we have a color option on this feature? How ironic: I love my Red, but I have trouble seeing it.

 

[Jason Ing]

i saw this feature at the la user group meeting this morning. fantastic!

am i correct in thinking that the red color changes in intensity to reflect the depth of field? so it's redder when it's most in focus? if so, could someone tell me why this so? what is the benefit? it's a "focus" assist, not a "depth of field" assist. i need to know exactly which points/area that are "tack sharp" to the sensor. so shouldn't it be either on or off? i often want the actor's eyes dead on sharp with a short depth of field like I get with a 100mm at 2.0.

when i was trying it out today, i noticed that the whites of the eyes would be slightly red, but the focus would be slightly off. and it got more "difficult" when using the small lcd screen. maybe because it's not an edge?

but don't get me wrong, i LOVED it and thought this was the coolest, coolest thing and could see it helping a lot when using my actioncam and having to pull focus myself while on the run.

 

[Joel Kaye]

i need to know exactly which points/area that are "tack sharp" to the sensor. so shouldn't it be either on or off? i often want the actor's eyes dead on sharp

A sensitivity adjustment might help here - but I think if you use it and check the footage in the computer you'll probably see the DOF range of your lens will put everything that's lit up in focus with the most intense parts being sharpest.

But you need to test that... could be different with different focal lengths and apertures.

 

[Jason Ing]

hmm... sharpness is then relative? i can see that... but then if it's relative, can we set up how relative it is... which is what I think you're saying about sensitivity adjustment?

don't want to sound critical or judgmental or giving my two cents on something i know very little about. just trying to figure this out and how i can use this best.

then i could make it hypersensitive so it's red or nothing.

thanks.

 

[Joel Kaye]

hmm... sharpness is then relative?

Think about a DOF chart for a moment. Everything always has a range of sharpness. At 10 feet with a 50mm lens at F4 you've got about 2+ feet within the focus range.


"Something" is going to be tack sharpiest - but that's a lot easier for a still photographer to get than a movie crew.


http://www.panavision.co.nz/main/kbase/reference/calcFOVform.asp

If I could see that range outlined with the sharpest point brightest I'd be pretty happy... now does edge highlighting do exactly that? Not sure, but maybe.

 

[wshultz]

Just like your zebras will pop a little more when they're overlaying something in sharp focus, the red edges seem to do the same over the sharpest focus.

Since I know what is foreground and what is background, I'm thinking it's helpful to see that area of depth in red and be able to walk it back and forth a little to shift the range if I want.

 

[Axel Mertes]

Nerdicus - Perhaps this is why I'm not seeing the red either. Damn you recessive gene! Red, can we have a color option on this feature? How ironic: I love my Red, but I have trouble seeing it.

To Jarred:

Count me in, I have the exact same problem, I see NOTHING but a grey image on the LCD. When a college pointed me to some "lines" that should appear in our own logo color, I went about 2" close with my eyes and had a distant feeling of "maybe seeing somewhat that could have been probably a GHOST Image". Thats the focus assist red. With blue or bright yellow, I'd probably not writing a single line here. And please, don't try green.

And I know why JVC uses blue as default color (but can change it).

Further a 1:1 zoom would help on the line thickness, without actually changing the line thickness. Give it a consideration.

Btw, the RED overexposure ample is the first ample in my life that has the right set of colors.

Cheers & have a nice sunday,
Axel

 

[Obin Olson]

its really a kick ass feature and would be perfect if the red lines are thicker
and its only red when its really close to being in focus!

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

Yeah.. a bit of a heart attack until he puts saturation back to 1. Just a little bug.

That and getting the Quicktime reference to show up in color.

As for line width.. im still not super-convinced the lines need to be wider...

no man really, they need to be wider. But if it really bugs you, then perhaps a choice that allows the user to select how wide they are.

I would imagine an AC working off the LCD would need them wider than someone working of a 30" Dell.

Perhaps that's the way everyone wins

Jay

 

[Thom Steinhoff]

Please compare red oulines on a lcd to a vf and monitor to see what we are asking for--it's not that we can't see it--it's that it ISNT THERE!

I demo'd this at the l.a. Users group meeting connected to an external monitor side by side on the lcd.

There were times we could see nothing on the lcd but plenty of red on the monitor.

I think this has to do with the scaling to get to the lcd. I've seen this a lot with single pixel lines at one res actually dissappearing when scaled to another.

I think that Jim is seeing it on a vf which would be unscaled so it would be visible. Please compare what you see (what we see) on a lcd compared to a vf.

I think the best option is to allow a opton for fat lines or figure out a way to not have the red pixels scaled off of the lcd.

This is a truely smoking feature and I can't wait for my vf to see it in all it's glory!!!

 

[wshultz]

And I'd like a way to instantly turn it on and off. Perhaps it comes on when I hit the 2X zoom in button.

 

[Joel Kaye]

And I'd like a way to instantly turn it on and off. Perhaps it comes on when I hit the 2X zoom in button.

It'd be cool if a single user button held several options as you clicked it... false color, edge focus assist, 2x view (ideally 1:1), and nothing at all.

Once all available user buttons are customizable this camera will be very fast to use. It's getting close...

 

[Barry Green]

Good point -- the buttons don't have to be just "on" and "off", they can cycle through. On the Panasonics the "zebra" button cycles from Zebra 1 to Zebra 2 to Spotmeter to Off. Works well. So yeah, second what joel says.

 

[wshultz]

As an aside, I like how it's now set if you leave the 2X button activated and try to record, RED lets you know you're making an error.

 

[Eryc Tramonn]

here is a quick snap:

Thanks Jarred, appreciate the upload. I know this was a quick screen cap, so maybe the resolution doesn't do it justice, but as is, I can understand why others would ask for a more discernible indicator. Seems completely useful though. Really nice job.

Thanks again.

 

[Jarred Land]

We will fiddle with it.. but the good thing about it being thin is that on high detailed scenes everything doesnt turn to mush.. and you can see more clearly when things really pop into focus.

 

[Joel Kaye]

We will fiddle with it.. but the good thing about it being thin is that on high detailed scenes everything doesnt turn to mush.. and you can see more clearly when things really pop into focus.

I noticed when I focused close on a knit cap up close I could see all the very fine single hairlike threads going in and out of focus. That was pretty cool - so I see your point. Certainly other color options should be easy to implement and maybe that would help.

Maybe it's good to go in the EVF right now.

Ultimately, user adjustable settings with an easy way to get back to default settings would probably end the conversation. Keep playing with it though - people will use this feature a lot once they gain confidence in it.

 

[Jarred Land]

Ultimately, user adjustable settings with an easy way to get back to default settings would probably end the conversation. .

agreed...