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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Accessories - Sexy vs. Crappy

How would you feel if you ordered a new car online and when it arrived you discovered that they only use the 'nice shiny paint' for the online photos and the first few hundred cars shipped?

In any case there are other options for Red accessories and they are looking better and better. Discussions like this are helping me decide which way to go for the gear I am specifying.

Could someone explain why the manufacturing process (casting vs. machining) limits how an item can be coated/anodized?

I certainly want Red to make money but in an industry where image is so important it is surprising to see them cutting corners in this way.

I know Red usually stays away from negative threads like this but I would appreciate hearing their explanations.
 
I agree with everyone. This is unacceptable.

WHAT DOES RED HAS TO SAY ABOUT IT? WHY THE TOTAL SILENCE?

I remember Jim saying he will not sleep until every customer is 100% happy. I remember Jim saying every customer will be treated as if he/she is the only one. Or as if he/she is Jim himself. Until he's not happy, Jim will not get any sleep. He will fix it.

P.S. "If RED's accessories aren't up to snuff for you... don't buy RED's accessories. It's a simple solution."

Like others, I agree this is not the right attitude.
 
The cast parts have a large inital outlay of cash...in the order of $50,000 to $150,000 for the tooling per part. Not to mention the actual cost of the parts. Not "cheap" by any means.
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Not true. Allied Casting, down the street from my house wouldn't cost anywhere near as much and the stuff would work right and look good, AND they would not be made in Singapore.

Arri manages to cast tons of parts and they all look good, and work well.

If they spent close to $200k on tooling, why didn't they just buy a couple of Haas CNC machines and machine the things in the states?

Steadicam manages to make precision parts, so do hundreds of other companies. There is no excuse for this. If the parts suck, get new vendors, there is no shortage of companies to do this work. Why not throw some money Element Technica's way and help them expand to meet demand?

Nick
 
CrewPix.com said:
I know Red usually stays away from negative threads like this but I would appreciate hearing their explanations.
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that's actually not true--

strong bitching about metric lenses coughed up metric lenses

more bitching about focal plane marks and now there are focal plane marks

bitched about lack of multi monitoring and it's soon forthcoming in build 15

still bitching about the audio issues but no less than stuart english has affirmed that they are working on it--

et cetera...

i would just keep bitching, especially since my 1st camera is likely to ship on Monday, supposedly, and i stand to be on the receiving end of this batch of parts...i will be very interested. RED will respond to this, too. i feel confident.

that said, i postponed shipping of the 2nd camera until after NAB, and RED was very courteous about the postponement--and my primary reason was wanting to see, touch, and feel accessories from RED and from 3rd-party manufacturers at NAB, to be sure that i order the right stuff, the first time. and don't over-order on stuff that i won't use.

RED is keeping a remarkable number of balls in the air...i agree that they should consider getting out of the accessories business, partner with some of the best 3rd party manufacturers regarding the accessories, and keep their eyes on image quality and workflow issues. and cheap, high quality lenses!

now that RED has real traction and is shipping larger numbers of cameras fairly consistently, the 3rd party manufacturers are going to accelerate their offerings quickly--which is why i'm going to run a bare-bones RED until after NAB.

then it will be time to drop another wad o' cash!
 
I love all of Jim's post in RECON about every new feature. But why didn't they announce that all new parts will be cast and have a matte finish and not look like the store photos?

Is this not kinda a new feature, just a none desired one?

Crazy thing is now I find myself looking like crazy for other options via ET, Zacuto or SIM days away from finalizing my order.

Please RED speak up.
 
I don't think anyone at RED could defend that basic LACK OF DETAILED INFORMATION on accessories on the www.Red.com website.

I think they have delivered enough cameras to add the resources to make that happen asap - and I think it will be a shame if they don't do it before NAB.
 
Ok… time to vote then.

(can you imagine the kind of results to such a vote :))
Emmanuel
 
CrewPix.com said:
Could someone explain why the manufacturing process (casting vs. machining) limits how an item can be coated/anodized?
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The finish I see in the pics looks like a 'black oxide' finish I have used on critical race car suspension parts. It will scratch, but also allows any developing cracks to be easily identified since the surface of the metal is not coated with paint or plating.

One affordable option for RED for these cast parts would be powder coating of the most visible areas.

And while I wholeheartedly support RED and their efforts, it's not okay to deliver differently finished parts from those pictured on the website. I hope they find time to update photos or offer better alternatives.

In the meantime, I will head over to Element Technica for my accessories - that's the beauty of a free market.

John
 
I saw some of the new dull grey accessories and they aren't as sexy, but the bigger problem is the tolerances issues. The prices are too much for that. Heck, any price is too much for parts out of whack. That's why Cavision got shot down here, when they could have been a low cost contender.

Anyhow, Red had to ramp up production somehow eh? Well I guess it's only their problem in that they didn't make sure their subcontractor delivered the goods as spec'd.
 
Shawn Nelson said:
Well I guess it's only their problem in that they didn't make sure their subcontractor delivered the goods as spec'd.
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Actually THAT part happens ALL THE TIME with manufacturing; what shouldn't of happened is that RED passed those inferior parts on to the customers!!!

I guess they had a bitching analysis done at RED headquarters:

What will the REDuser.net bitch-o-meter register if:

1) We delay delivery and go back to the subcontractor and have them REDO the parts (at their cost).

2) We just ship the crap we have now as it is.

I guess the analysis revealed a SPIKE beyond measurement in bitching with option 1.
:sarcasm:
 
Shawn Nelson said:
but the bigger problem is the tolerances issues.
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Yes, from my point of view this is also the issue. The accessories should work in warm and cold, and if the tolerances are only somewhat there in room temperature, that's easily a source of problems. For my needs the appereance is not an issue as long as brids and other animals do not care.

Another point is, that it is bit surprising to learn accesories are changed to different type silently. The marketing strategy of RED has very much been to create confidence by being open.

I already found it surprising RED did not support Birger better, as at the time RED announced clearly there will be a Canon EF-mount for RED. The way I read this was, RED recognizes this is an important adapter for many potential customers and thus RED wants to also have it. It seems without Aquavideo's generous help Birger's project would have postponed far more and had far more difficulties. I've thought and still think, the lack of support to Birger is just a single incidence and nobody at RED has simply had time to pay attention to it in the burden of other pressing things.

But what should we think of selling accessories that are not the same as what one is let to understand? Probably another detail nobody has had time to pay enough attention. Or is it partly the low value of dollar?
 
Pig said:
Actually THAT part happens ALL THE TIME with manufacturing; what shouldn't of happened is that RED passed those inferior parts on to the customers!!!

I guess they had a bitching analysis done at RED headquarters:

What will the REDuser.net bitch-o-meter register if:

1) We delay delivery and go back to the subcontractor and have them REDO the parts (at their cost).

2) We just ship the crap we have now as it is.

I guess the analysis revealed a SPIKE beyond measurement in bitching with option 1.
:sarcasm:
Click to expand...

Yeah, Red should have held ground and delayed, gone back to the manufacturers and let them know that accessories like this won't be tolerated.
 
You know, due to all the excitement that the arrival of my Red One # 711 created on me, I need to admit that I did not make a deal out of my disappointment when I saw the difference in looks of my parts vs. the Red.com photos. I need to admit that I cannot believe that me, as critical and demanding customer that I am, deceived myself and did not react before.

After reading this thread, and understanding Jim's commitment toward having ALL clients 100% satisfied, I will ask for a replacement of any single component that does not look like the advertised parts.

I am 100% sure that Jim will react doing the right thing: that is and has always been his promise. There are not good and bad Oakley's sunglases finishes. They are always GREAt ones.

Luis
 
Statusfilms@yahoo.com said:
RED- Please tell us what is going on????
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LOL, in typical RED-fashion, they throw us a bone, instead of addressing the issue:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9920

This happens everytime someting goes wrong, and the mood gets sombre. Ever notice this?
There's some BIG complaint....then there's immediately a bone. Same thing when Scarlet was announced. That timing was very deliberate.

RED, we're on to you! :tongue:
 
I think RED should compensate with free T-Shirts. And stickers. Stickers should come with the body period, like in Apple fashion.

I can't wait 'til tomorrow, when hopefully someone from RED will address our concerns satisfactorily.

FREE SHIRTS AND STICKERS TO ALL CAMERA OWNERS!!!!
 
yeah, that 2k 120fps post did distract me too. lol. easy to "forgive" when they're putting out a camera like this. so what, accessories, schmessories.
 
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