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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

POLL - Recovery of formated media

POLL - Recovery of formated media

  • I want the best answer possible as soon as possible.

    Votes: 7 16.3%

  • It's an important feature, but I'm OK getting it down the road.

    Votes: 13 30.2%

  • I just manage my media properly and don't mistakenly format media -- not a big deal for me.

    Votes: 23 53.5%
  • Total voters
    43
M

mdo

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Pursuant to the thread on Volume Recover on an 8GB Red Flash Card, here's the question: Is putting together a tool to allow reliable recovery of formated media a sufficiently important issue that the Red team should become involved in defining a set of rules for beginning and ending signatures, and possibly for creating highly reliable beginning and ending signatures for each of its file types, to maximize the ease of recovering mistakenly formated media?

How important is it?
 
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  • #6
Alexander Nikishin said:
So there's currently no way of recovering lost footage on the CF cards?
Click to expand...

I haven't looked at the media, but if the files were in the root directory, and it was formated, then the only way to recover is with a signature search to identify the beginning and the end of the file.

Since this is a new format, I would expect that there hasn't been much data recovery analysis done on these file types. There may be signature data that can be used, and it may be possible that contiguous files can be used to identify beginning and ending clusters, if, for example, MOV wrappers are always written after the end of the R3D file.

So the answer to your question is that it's probably possible to recover the data, but at present it appears that it would be a manual process that would have to be done by someone who is familiar with data recovery, which would be an expensive process.

The purpose of this poll is to find out whether or not redusers would want Red to put some attention on either defining a clear specification for how the beginning and ending clusters of its file types can be located or adding highly unique byte sequences at or near the beginning and end of files to act as markers.

With the markers clearly defined, data recovery could be done with a disk editor like WinHex by someone who has a fairly good understanding of computers. It would be a manual process, but since there are comparatively few files, it could be done in a reasonable amount of time.

Also, the file types could easily be incorporated in existing data recovery solutions.
 
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  • #7
CrewPix.com said:
Good thing then that 58% of the poll respondants so far never, ever, ever make mistakes.

I want their names so we can all say "I told ya so" when it happens to them!
Click to expand...

I probably should have worded the third option a bit differently, since at present it does have the odd quality of sounding like the person believes themselves to be infallible. I'm sure no one's thinking along those lines. Sorry for the ambiguity.

The third option probably should be something along the lines of:

"While I think it's a good idea, don't take any attention off anything else to address it."
 
...or "Might be handy in some cases, but isn't urgent or vital"

You'd never ask for a tool to fix your negative when you accidentally open a can of film... The RED cards should be treated in the same way. You have a slightly better chance of getting it back if you make a mistake, but in general it should be considered that once it's gone, it really is gone.

While there are options and techniques for giving yourself a better chance at making a recovery if the worst happens, it's far from absolute and there are many factors. Creating a tool may just raise expectations unreasonably.
 
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  • #9
That's the question.
 
Sycophant said:
I think it would be a nice idea, but having it can create a false sense of security for people.
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Indeed. I agree. We have a very film-based system. All "exposed" footage goes in the can. Once it has been transferred (and checked), ONLY THEN does it go back into the "can now be used" box.

Essentially noting is deleted till its been transferred and verified.
 
If it can be done, do it. It's free insurance and you can't beat that, regardless of how well you tape down the lid.
 
Tail Ends said:
If it can be done, do it. It's free insurance and you can't beat that, regardless of how well you tape down the lid.
Click to expand...

That's the problem. It's not insurance. Even if it can be done, there are so many situations in which it would fail to work that it can't be relied on. Yes, if it fails it may be worth spending the time and money to get the databack, but if you believe you have the safety net you may not take the care that is required.
 
Sycophant said:
That's the problem. It's not insurance. Even if it can be done, there are so many situations in which it would fail to work that it can't be relied on. Yes, if it fails it may be worth spending the time and money to get the databack, but if you believe you have the safety net you may not take the care that is required.
Click to expand...

If the correct signatures are defined or created, the recovery process could be relied on 100% for the scenario of deletions or formats where the files involved are unfragmented. The recovery would become unreliable for files that have been fragmented, which can occur if files are deleted between takes (or if the operating system creates and deletes temporary files during the operation of the camera). How often are files deleted between takes? If it happens a lot, the potential value of a solution like this diminishes. If it's more common to retain all takes on a card, this solution should be highly reliable.

At the same time, I fully agree that having a recovery program should not be allowed to reduce the care that is taken in preventing loss of data in the first place. It should not be considered to be a safety net. It's a last-ditch lifeline snatching you from the jaws of hell.
 
Might create a false sense of security. It's a good idea to treat your CF cards like unexposed negative, not have the idea that a mistaken format is easily recovered. Even with this digital signature thingy most people won't know how to do data recovery. Just practice good transfer procedures and you won't have to worry.

Noah
 
Yes, of course, you treat your RED Cards the same way as Film Mags. BUT if there is an extra way to have a way to scan the cards, it should absolutely be explored.

Here is the site where I am collecting donations for a trial of the Virtual Lab recover software.

Thanks to everyone who has already donated and to those who will in the future.

Donate Here:

http://tinyurl.com/36u9qh


971_1203551337.png
 
Casey Green said:
Here is the site where I am collecting donations for a trial of the Virtual Lab recover software.
Click to expand...

The link is broken. It was created with a URL that is shortened with ellipsis in the middle. Need to replace it with the full URL.
 
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