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Come on, RED. . . when is your dumb Nikon mount coming out?

Stephen Pruitt

Stephen Pruitt

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Seriously. . .

. . . I'm in the next batch and don't want to add to the growing collection of $25,000 paperweights.

When are you shipping that Nikon mount????

Stephen
 
Greg. . .

You've got to be kidding, right?

Of all of the classless posts I've read on REDUser. . .

Oh, well. . . to each his own.

Stephen
 
Stephen Pruitt said:
Seriously. . .

. . . I'm in the next batch and don't want to add to the growing collection of $25,000 paperweights.

When are you shipping that Nikon mount????

Stephen
Click to expand...

With Reds' customer policy, you can delay delivery until the camera has what you want. You didn't book business with a camera you don't actually have did you?
 
I completely understand Stephen's frustration.

You other guys must either already have your camera or are so far out it doesn't matter. A lot of early reservation holders ordered based on the understanding of being able to use their Nikon lenses. In my mind it was originally presented as a base option, not an accessory.

That being said, about a week ago Jarred said approximately two weeks out so they are getting close.
 
Yes, getting close. I also understand the frustration... My original plan was to primarily use my Nikon glass with RED. But camera took longer, things change, now I look at it as a nice option to have, but something I won't do very often.

The Nikon mount was never marketed as a base option, it's been a $500 add-on ever since it was first announced. It was always stated that the camera would ship with a PL mount. Not that big a deal, IMO. Even those who are planning to use the Nikon or other still lens mount with RED (even exclusively) will probably still want the PL mount at some point... Even if it's for re-sale.

I am glad RED revised their reservation policy, allowing reservation holders to delay indefinitely. It was the right thing to do... The camera is still very much in beta form and many accessories are still being revised or are just not in full production yet. For many, the promise of a Nikon or Canon mount is the only way they can justify purchasing a RED.
 
Well said Jeff. I do plan to use PL mount glass but currently I'm with those who justified the purchase through getting mileage out of my existing lenses.
 
Thanks for the supportive words, Jeff and WShulz.

I am one of the "losers" who won't be able to afford PL lenses for my RED. I'm definitely going to mail in my money this week (if, indeed, the email comes, as suggested), but without the Birger/Canon or the dumb Nikon I won't have any lenses to use on it at all.

I could certainly see buying the RED 18-50, but I honestly don't see what they buys me that the Nikons and the Canons do. Indeed, I find it hard to believe that RED's 18-50 would even be AS GOOD as a great Nikon or a Canon L-series lens. In fact, I'd bet money on that one.

I was REALLY hoping that Birger would be out by now, as I'd love to be able to use the wireless option with my (soon to arrive) Actioncam set-up. It just seems like going the RED 18-50 route will be a real waste of money if the Birger really does live up to its promise. I mean, why would I ever want to use to the 18-50 when I could use an electronically-controlled Canon L-series? I'd be out $6500 with absolutely nothing to show for it and little chance of even getting 50 cents on the dollar for the used RED lens. Throw in the fact that I'd need a follow focus for the RED (or the AI Nikons), but not for the Birger/Canon, and the math becomes overwhelming in favor of the Birger. And it will work on steadycams! The Birger is a no-brainer for sure, but I have NO idea when that is coming out. My thought was to just buy a dumb Nikon and a cheap follow focus until the Birger/Canon came out, then sell my Nikons and buy Canon L-series zooms and primes.

Oh well. . . I'm a bit frustrated. I guess that's what I get for being on the bleeding edge.

Only solace? I suspect that the RED folks are bleeding, as well.

:-)

But MAN, I can't wait to get this camera!

Stephen
 
there is another choice

there is another choice

Kevin Halverson kevin@museelectronics.com makes a mount for the Canon FD. Adapters for dumb Nikon etc are widely available (see ebay type in FD Nikon) for cheap. Then you can use both Nikon and Canon Fd glass. Not to forget to mention several other mounts for which adapters to Canon FD are available. On the other hand it's impossible to build a Canon lens to Nikon adapter!!!

Best news Kevin is 3 weeks from order to delivery.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
The Nikon mount was never marketed as a base option, it's been a $500 add-on ever since it was first announced. It was always stated that the camera would ship with a PL mount. Not that big a deal, IMO. Even those who are planning to use the Nikon or other still lens mount with RED (even exclusively) will probably still want the PL mount at some point... Even if it's for re-sale.

I am glad RED revised their reservation policy, allowing reservation holders to delay indefinitely. For many, the promise of a Nikon or Canon mount is the only way they can justify purchasing a RED.
Click to expand...


Jeff:

I think what Stephen meant was it was intended to be available immediately, like the handles/rails and such hardware, the CF module, etc. The CF module is/was a $500 option too, but could you even get a serial 0-300 camera without it? I got the CF module because I felt I had no choice if I wanted to even test the camera but when it arrived there is no side plate in the box that the CF replaced and it would appear that all of those cameras were built with CF modules.

If Kevin Halverson - a third party - could make the Canon FD mount in a timely manner, then there is no reason the actual camera company couldn't. Either somebody dropped the ball or somebody didn't want to get it finished right away. I think there are too many conspiracy theories in the world, but given the track record of RED's support for Birger and their own dumb mount, any reasonable person has to wonder. Simply giving the end user the option of delaying taking delivery on a product that is supposed to be revolutionary, and the person has been eagerly anticipating for months, seems like a bit of a squeeze play given that, IMHO, the Nikon mount should have been done a month ago at worst case.

Many people did order the camera based on other lens options being available. I personally convinced at least two people to stretch their budget from HVX200/EX1 levels to a RED, based on the Birger option making their overall purchase of RED Camera/lenses/underwater housing within a reasonable financial distance. And there are several more that probably were going RED but this was a strong influential factor. I am sure that there are a number of people that were counting on Nikon capability when they made their decision.

Stephen Pruitt said:
I could certainly see buying the RED 18-50, but I honestly don't see what they buys me that the Nikons and the Canons do. Indeed, I find it hard to believe that RED's 18-50 would even be AS GOOD as a great Nikon or a Canon L-series lens. In fact, I'd bet money on that one.

IIt just seems like going the RED 18-50 route will be a real waste of money if the Birger really does live up to its promise. I mean, why would I ever want to use to the 18-50 when I could use an electronically-controlled Canon L-series? I'd be out $6500 with absolutely nothing to show for it and little chance of even getting 50 cents on the dollar for the used RED lens. Throw in the fact that I'd need a follow focus for the RED (or the AI Nikons), but not for the Birger/Canon, and the math becomes overwhelming in favor of the Birger. My thought was to just buy a dumb Nikon and a cheap follow focus until the Birger/Canon came out, then sell my Nikons and buy Canon L-series zooms and primes.

Oh well. . . I'm a bit frustrated. I guess that's what I get for being on the bleeding edge.

Only solace? I suspect that the RED folks are bleeding, as well.

:-)

But MAN, I can't wait to get this camera!

Stephen
Click to expand...

Stephen, I concur with your points. If you NEED a PL mount cine-style lens, the 18-50 RED lens is a great value. I personally watched as the Arriflex people here in Ft. Lauderdale projected it and were quite impressed with its optics. But it is fairly clear that the RED 18-50 is a $600 Sigma lens rehoused (and autofocus removed). Again, fine since it is still a great value - Century gets about $15K for their rehoused lenses.

But I think those Arri people would be just as impressed with the optics of the regular Sigma 18-50, or the Canon 16-35 L, 24-70 L, or even EF-S lenses like 10-22 EF-S and 17-55 F2.8 IS which I will be testing shortly.

As I have said in the Birger thread - I actually have nothing to gain from sticking my neck out in support of this (I already have a prototype Birger mount which allows me to use my manual Nikon and Zeiss lenses also), but it seems to me that backing people like Stephen into considering buying an 18-50 PL when it really wasn't a part of their budget or their configuration plan isn't really fair or, again IMHO, good for the long term feeling about the company - it is that sort of thing that has engendered such harsh feelings about Sony in many quarters - including all over REDUSER.

I'm really not trying to trash RED, I'm trying to suggest that they reevaluate. Although they may lose a few possible RED lens sales, they have and will gain a lot of people through the support of using still lenses. RED has an opportunity to embrace the Birger solution - which allows full lens data integration, enhanced and simplified collimation modes through in camera software, and a bunch of other cool things in the future that are only possible due to the built in precision motors and intelligence in modern still lenses. (And of course the cost effectiveness that comes from making thousands instead tens or hundreds like in the cine world.)

People that should buy PL lenses, will buy PL lenses but that universe is relatively small. The universe of camera buyers with $30K budgets (or $10K budgets that could be stretched to $30K if there is enough bang for the buck) and that don't really need/fit that workflow is huge.
 
AquaVideoRed206 said:
Jeff:

Many people did order the camera based on other lens options being available...And there are several more that probably were going RED but this was a strong influential factor. I am sure that there are a number of people that were counting on Nikon capability when they made their decision.

I'm really not trying to trash RED, I'm trying to suggest that they reevaluate. Although they may lose a few possible RED lens sales, they have and will gain a lot of people through the support of using still lenses. RED has an opportunity to embrace the Birger solution - which allows full lens data integration, enhanced and simplified collimation modes through in camera software, and a bunch of other cool things in the future that are only possible due to the built in precision motors and intelligence in modern still lenses. (And of course the cost effectiveness that comes from making thousands instead tens or hundreds like in the cine world.)

People that should buy PL lenses, will buy PL lenses but that universe is relatively small. The universe of camera buyers with $30K budgets (or $10K budgets that could be stretched to $30K if there is enough bang for the buck) and that don't really need/fit that workflow is huge.
Click to expand...

I wholeheartedly agree with all of this.

I get the feeling Birger's offer of a dumb Nikon mount was squashed by RED and can understand why. It would compete directly with RED's dumb Nikon mount. Fair enough. The problem is the delay for the RED solution, which appears to be ending in a few weeks.

I just want to know that Birger is moving forward with a smart Nikon solution, because it was news of Birger's intentions back in August that really lit a fire under me to move forward with buying in to the RED ONE.

And I hope RED realizes and acknowledges how much the promise of the Birger solution opened up the market for the RED ONE in a big way and really deserves to be treated as a valuable partner.
 
Well said, Aqua. . .

I, for one, AM one of those HVX to RED converts. I sold my totally tricked out HVX set-up to buy the RED. And now I don't have any way to use it! And let it be said that $30K is a LOT of money for me. I had to sell an Ansel Adams photograph to make it possible. :-(

Just tonight I called RED to finalize my order (I'll be wiring them the money tomorrow), and were told that given my order priority, it might be TWO MONTHS before I actually got their dumb mount in my hands. That ain't gonna cut it for me.

All of my marbles are clearly on the Birger/Canon. I sure hope that Erik delivers the goods. If not, I don't know what I'm going to do.

Thanks again, Aqua, for helping all of this come to fruition.

Stephen
 
Stephen Pruitt said:
Thanks again, Aqua, for helping all of this come to fruition.

Stephen
Click to expand...

Hey Stephen - ugly problem you have there. where are you located? it might be possible that we could have one or two pl - mount lenses to much in march/april which have to go for service for minor issues in the summer (re-adjustments of scale etc).
 
Jesus...two months???????

Jesus...two months???????

Stephen Pruitt said:
Well said, Aqua. . .

Just tonight I called RED to finalize my order (I'll be wiring them the money tomorrow), and were told that given my order priority, it might be TWO MONTHS before I actually got their dumb mount in my hands.
Stephen
Click to expand...

Jesus...two months???????

RED?? Stuart?? Jim?? Anybody???
 
Yeah. . . two months. . . but I think that a lot of that lag is due to the fact that I'm way down there near #800. . . and there a lot of people way ahead of me.

It seems that shipments might start as soon as ONE month, but, again, I'm MUCH further down the list than that.

But that's what I heard tonight. Perhaps it was pessimistic, but I wasn't thrilled to hear about it.

:-(

Stephen
 
Hi Laguun. . . I'm in Kansas City. . . God's country.

:-)

I have been looking at PL lens rentals, but they are SOOOOO expensive. . . the cheapest I've found are $69 A DAY! That's $2000 a month!

I can tell you this much: I'll never be renting lenses!

Stephen
 
Have you thought of burglary?

Have you thought of burglary?

Stephen Pruitt said:
Yeah. . . two months. . . but I think that a lot of that lag is due to the fact that I'm way down there near #800. . . and there a lot of people way ahead of me.

It seems that shipments might start as soon as ONE month, but, again, I'm MUCH further down the list than that.

But that's what I heard tonight. Perhaps it was pessimistic, but I wasn't thrilled to hear about it.

:-(

Stephen
Click to expand...

Have you thought of burglary?:biggrin:


Seriously, I have a raw Nikon mount here that I'd send you (hardship donation-I'm trying to build up my cosmic Karma) if you wanted to go find a machinist that would make you a mount. I don't have the time (and I'm a Canon guy anyway) but it shouldn't be that hard - face off a piece of aluminum about an inch thick, mount the piece I have in it, put the four RED mount holes in it and then trim it slightly on the lathe until you get the FFD/backfocus right. If you go too far you would just have to shim it back. This is not a hard project for a good machinist (the hard part - the Nikon bayonet mount - is already done). Shouldn't be that expensive even at regular rates, and if you find one that thinks its cool, it could be really cheap.

BTW Any of you in the same situation could just buy a Nikon camera and remove the mount - film based Nikon and Canon SLRs are dirt cheap on ebay.

Once Erik gets his mount done you could just trim it down some more to match his intermediate plate - then you would have a solid Nikon mount without the thin Nikon to EOS adapter.
 
Or you could sell your camera, make 5 or 6 grand (or more), buy back your Ansel Adams' print (there's one on ebay right now for $5k obo) and then get back on the waiting list - and get your RED this summer with the Birger Nikon mount.

Personally I like Aqua's idea...sounds like a fun project. Make a few adapters and pay off the machine shop...
 
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