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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED in Chicago

I agree, I posted over on another thread how I thought that there was too much talk about coloring workflow than there was about the red. At one point, it was so much talk about it I thought we were in a class on film grading. But it was great to see the camera.

I personally was impressed by the 2k projector, but then again, I've never seen anything like it before being stuck here in Champaign-Urbana. I was really happy about seeing some Red footage actually professionally color graded though. It was such a huge difference seeing the original file and seeing the color graded files. Night and day.

I just personally wish that someone from RED had been there, because

1) we would have probably gotten to see "Crossing the Line"

2) there was a lot of misinformation given tonight, especially about the sensor and stuff. Sometimes I wish I had a portable Graeme whenever someone tried to spew crap about CMOS sensors and bayer patterns.

3) it would have been more RED focused if someone had been there, and I think people would have gotten a lot more out of it. Craig, the colorist, made the workflow seem impossibly hard, and talking to people afterwords he made it seem like RED wasn't worth the trouble and that was really dissapointing.
 
Yeah, I was having trouble hearing where Craig was--it's like he was warring with himself. I was glad that they had someone who knew nothing about Red and just commented on what he saw de novo, but I also would have liked someone who was not still in the middle of a paradigm shift as he seemed at times to be (and I did hear that he likes coloring in all formats--film, tape, DV, HDV, etc., etc. but I sometimes wondered if he was just covering his bases--could be wrong though).

The problem with displaying Crossing is, I believe, that it would have needed to be displayed in 4k, and they only had a 2k projector.
 
I've looked at tons of footage, enough footage - I just now want to get one in my hands and "feel the power"

But seeing all the grades applied by craig, twisting the color space, sliding the knee - seeing the footage graded by a pro colorist really was inspiring. Was a pleasure to hear everyone speak in praise of a smarter way of shooting digital, finally an image with nice latitude that allows you to swim in post.

(need to qualify: not trying to be fanboy but I am excited)
They pretty much echoed many of our sentiments that the Red is the "best thing on the market"
 
I came away from that feeling VERY excited. I thought it was just a chance to see Red live and in person. Anyone keeping up with this sight already knows a lot more than was discussed. I got the impression it was an intro to people who have just kind of heard of Red but haven't taken the time to research.

I was very interested in Craig and John's take on the post workflow. Perhaps my working on the commercial side of things let me see past what may have seemed like a negative response. I think that they were in fact acknowledging the great potential of Red. They were also just expressing that trying to work in a full 4k workflow was a difficult task given the amount of data that needs to run through the system. It would be easy to see how they might sound less than enthusiastic as they were talking about potentially getting footage with the settings "baked in" via tape or dpx exports, but I think they were acknowledging the latitude the camera has and were very positive about it.

I think that footage has to be taken as it was shoot - quick tests. CROSSING looked really good. Some of the flower shots looked really good. The grading examples were inspiring.

I'm trying not to loose sight of how incredible this camera can be. We are seeing first releases and quick test footage and things still seem great.

One thing that caught my attention was that Craig was using Apple's Color for some of the grading, and while he said it's not his tool of choice it worked. The power this (Red and its supporting software) gives an individual is truly amazing and shouldn't be overlooked. This box has been opened.

On a different note - I wish we could have set up a meeting corner to at least shake each others hands. I hope to meet you guys at some point.
 
I was very interested to hear a colorists' perspective because that's one of this camera's greatest strengths.

Their biggest thing was that they didn't want to work in 4k, that their hardware was taxed even working on what they were working on. Don't blame them, as most of the work they are doing ends up being broadcast not cinema.

I wished I had listened in afterwards to hear them in small groups, but all current industry politics/pandering aside, i felt they liked it, were excited about it, and are convinced its the closest thing to film.
 
Kendal joked everyone with a redservation should have worn their lanyard, which would have been interesting.

I've a shaved head, beard, glasses and am Polish, not Hispanic like everyone thinks...

I was looking for a Simpsons charactor, but one never walked through the door or else I would have said hi.
 
Hoffman said:
II was very interested in Craig and John's take on the post workflow. Perhaps my working on the commercial side of things let me see past what may have seemed like a negative response. I think that they were in fact acknowledging the great potential of Red. They were also just expressing that trying to work in a full 4k workflow was a difficult task given the amount of data that needs to run through the system. It would be easy to see how they might sound less than enthusiastic as they were talking about potentially getting footage with the settings "baked in" via tape or dpx exports, but I think they were acknowledging the latitude the camera has and were very positive about it.
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I enjoyed discussing the RED....as a vfx artist/co-owner of camera #22, I'm totally excited about it and what it holds for film and post production. The folks at RED have been unbelievably helpful, responsive, and just plain brilliant from a tech standpoint -- without a doubt they are the most customer-focused company I've dealt with since the early days of discreet logic. I just gotta think F23, Genesis, and Viper makers have to be at a loss right now -- in a year when all the bugs get worked out I just don't see how those cameras will survive. There already way more REDs on order than those combined, I imagine.

Sorry some of that might have come off as negative (though several others posted here and told me in person that they could tell how excited I was about the camera). The point about getting files which don't have enough latitude for adjustment is that it doesn't leave room for integrating into a composite. If someone was too heavy handed in exporting from RedAlert, it could lead to really bad composites. It's why I always ask colorists for flat passes on effects shots -- you want to have that lattitude to change and integrate.

I'll also admit I'm not really excited with working on 4K images in post (for broadcast or cinema), as it simply takes a lot of effort to work with. I think about the storage and bandwidth requirements, the immense detail which makes effects shots more difficult to execute in the time given to do so, the processing time to do effects, not to mention wondering how you view these brilliant images at a 1:1 pixel relationship. There's a ton of reasons why one shouldn't relish working at 4K.

However, doing work at a downrezed/oversampled 2K and having the extra 4K resolution when you need it is absolutely brilliant.

I'm totally excited.....
 
lboyce said:
2) there was a lot of misinformation given tonight, especially about the sensor and stuff. Sometimes I wish I had a portable Graeme whenever someone tried to spew crap about CMOS sensors and bayer patterns.
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Yeah....I've basically learned all I know from Graeme (for instance, see http://www.fxguide.com/article375.html) and agree. He's actually one reason we were so confident about our camera purchase at fxguide.

One point I tried to make in response to Craig's mention about resolution is that people can make all these comments about whether it is it truly 4K because of the sensor, the debayering, etc. etc. Sure, with the debayering comes interpolation..its the nature of the beast. But with film comes grain...that's not perfect. All it takes (imho) is to take a look at the gorgeous imagery coming from RED to realize these discussions -- while interesting -- don't mean that much. For instance, I can see myself spending way less time worrying about wavelet artifacts or debayering than I ever would about grain on a film job.

Anyway...its frustrating. At times those arguments I see around the web can sometimes seem to be excuses or rationalizations or things to said to make people feel better that they don't have a camera.

Looking forward to heading down to Sydney in a couple of weeks and spending some time with RED to suss out our RED workflow class at fxphd.com. I'm totally jealous Mike has gotten to work with the camera...and I've just gotten to play with the imagery. :)
 
I have to agree with you John, the imagery speaks for itself. The before and after example of graded footage was a pleasant surprise. It would’ve been nice to have someone from Red there, but the lack of representation I think lead to a more honest assessment by the panel. The panel was as excited about the camera as we are. I’ve seen one now. It feels real.
 
Kurt,

Missed your reply and wasn't at the event but it would be nice to get together. I am laughing at the debate over 4K workflow because in a few years we will probably be having the same debate over 8K or 10K. I'm putting together a new system right now and am amazed that I can get over 600 megabits per sec out of a simple SATA II array. We're putting in Seagate 1T drives for $350 each - just fours ago I was paying $50,000 for an EMC array system that didn't even have a terrabyte.

We all will be able to handle the data rate and the amount with ease in the rapidly forseeable future. Did you ever think you would be doing 1080P on a notebook?

BTW - There is simply nothing that compares with 4K projection - I had one of the Sony's in the shop for evaluation and was blown away. I was looking at some 35mm originated material that I was intimately familliar with and saw things that I had NEVER seen before even when it was projected as 35. The cameras were under some high G's and I could actually see the float in the gate change as the camera went through it's excursions - pretty amazing. These differences we incredibly subtle but it was the first time we had been able to discern them. Of course the nice thing about RED is that we won't have to worry about that.
 
Without a doubt this is going to change things. I think we all like to get into the details of the hardware because we're all techno-nerds - The best thing to do to keep yourself grounded is just enjoy the image which in itself is amazing and repeat "$17,500"..."$17,500"..."$17,500"... holy crap!
 
Hey Chicago. Just thought I'd let you all know that we received our Red One last week!! I'm pretty much over the moon about it! We're down in Champaign-Urbana!
 
Awesome. What are you planning on using for lenses, mattebox, support etc.?

Congrats... it's a RED.
 
You guys must be in heaven!

Jay in St Louis just got his too. I just got my first email tonight!
 
Hoffman said:
Awesome. What are you planning on using for lenses, mattebox, support etc.?

Congrats... it's a RED.
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We have the Red Zoom 18-50mm and an Angenieux 25-250. We just ordered a brand new 5x5 Petroff Matte Box and a Chrosziel follow focus to use with 15mm rods.
 
Lakeview Productions said:
You guys must be in heaven!

Jay in St Louis just got his too. I just got my first email tonight!
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Yeah...Heaven is an understatement. All my life I dreamed of having a camera that could make the kind of images I saw in the movies I loved. Now I do. This is the beginning of securing a number of childhood dreams.
 
lboyce said:
We have the Red Zoom 18-50mm and an Angenieux 25-250. We just ordered a brand new 5x5 Petroff Matte Box and a Chrosziel follow focus to use with 15mm rods.
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I'd love to take a look at that Angenieux someday.
 
We just ordered the Angenieux today. It's the same old vintage lens that CJ Roy has but I LOVE the footage he got with it. Very soft and organic. I'm very excited.
 
We just ordered the Angenieux today
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I have seen some nice footage with that lens. Where did you get it? How fast is it I don't recall?
 
Hoffman said:
I have seen some nice footage with that lens. Where did you get it? How fast is it I don't recall?
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Got it from Visual Products and they were awesome. They're taking the thing and cleaning it from top to bottom. Checking it over to make sure it's as good as new and then throwing in a Pelican case for it as well. They're amazing.

The lens is a T3.9.
 
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