Audio Issues

[Bryan Smith]

I have to say this is pretty frustrating...that we are liretally now resorting to shootiong on DSMC 1 Dragon for semi-decent audio. Was quite excited that the Raptor brought back +48. Yes I know...hire proper audio person. We do that all the time. Yet pretty much every other camera on the market allows being able to toss a shotgun on and get good verite audio. I have tried everything on the Raptor. It's worse than DSMC 2. Can't even get a Video Mic Pro to play. Is anyone able to get decent audio levels into this camera on channels 3/4 with proper cables without completely maxing out the gain on the camera...which makes the audio useless.

 

[Drew Baird]

Interesting. You’ve used the DSMC3 5-Pin to Dual XLR 3-Pin Adapter at mic level and it’s not sensitive enough for practical use? If this is the case I’ll save my $300 and wait for something that works.

I don’t use camera mounted mics often, but when I do it needs to work. Obviously.

 

[Russ Fill]

Ok I just went through 2 days of interviews with just running a 416 on a boom pole and a senheiser wireless mic to the duel XLR to 5pin cable and it all worked beautifully... It did take me a little time to set it up and get the levels right but I did playback it it all seemed pretty good to me.
Obviously we all would rather have our favorite audio tech but sometimes your just doing this little passion or friends project and need a quick setup.
Might be some issues in your setup or setting???..
Like I said I used the 5pin to 2 XLR cables and then ran one to the boom with 48 volt running the 416, and the other plugged in to my little Senheiser wireless system and I have used it with Letrosonic wireless also..

Also RED loving the ability to do a frame grab or change settings from my phone while setting up. Such a valuable tool to have have to keep going back and forth to the camera just to make some art or lighting adjustment..

 

[Christopher S Johnson]

Beachtek DXA is a great fix.

 

[Ryan Chernin]

I forgot that the CloudLifter doesn’t work with condenser mics, but this one will do the trick:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...rophone-preamp

smaller and easier to use in-line than an extra module like the Beachtek

 

[Bryan Smith]

Thanks everyone for the input. Just to be clear the audio is working, just have to effectively max out gain in the camera to get decent levels and then of course it's picking up fan, ect... Looks like one of these inline preamps may be an interesting solution.

 

[Ryan Chernin]

Thanks everyone for the input. Just to be clear the audio is working, just have to effectively max out gain in the camera to get decent levels and then of course it's picking up fan, ect... Looks like one of these inline preamps may be an interesting solution.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...rophone-preamp

this one will also work. It’s about 50 bucks more expensive, with a few more features (like cable runs up to 3000m and a rumble filter), and it’s got 23db clean boost instead of 18db.

It’s a touch bigger than the other in-line model, but from the pics it still looks smaller than a CloudLifter or BT DXA

 

[Nick Morrison]

Also consider a MixPre, just so you have a professional level external recorder, especially on sit down interviews, when we don't have a sound tech with us, etc.

For run n gun, yeah not sure...

 

[W. Bill Magac]

Beachtek DXA is a great fix.

Give this a look.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._red_2_channel_preamplifier_with_phantom.html

 

[Jeremy Torrie]

Definitely need to boost the incoming levels to get proper useable ones in camera. I had to go hastily to Rome and wasn’t able to remember my Zoom F6…it boosts the channels and can output. Now I just need to figure out a mount to keep everything together.

 

[Jeremy Torrie]

So, having a week of real life doc use I can say having a legit booster of the incoming sound is necessary, and unfortunately Red has left us to figure out appropriate solutions on our own while not making the camera too unwieldy.

The Beachtek looks slimmer and has some mounting options. From what I can see it doesn’t provide an XLR out, which should happen in an ideal world, especially since we purchased the 5-pin cable with XLR pigtails on it.

I have tried a couple of different things [a Comica AD3 was one]…I have a Zoom F6 that is bigger. Need to find how I will mount it but the beauty is it can be used as a 32-bit external recorder while passing through sound to the camera [but not via XLR]. Still requires a mini to XLR which adds to the spaghetti…again, Jarred, I realize the design is quite eloquent on the Raptor and the XL is coming [I cannot afford to keep buying and selling every new iteration, or dedicate time to selling an existing unit at some undetermined ‘used’ price] but I did see that pesky knockoff the Mavo have dual XLR’s in atop their latest design. Not ideal but saving us a bit of space.

All of this is to say a dedicated sound person is always preferable. Sometimes/most times the run-and-gun situation arises and said sound person is not always avaiable…so helping out here is a very real necessity.

 

[Ryan Chernin]

So, having a week of real life doc use I can say having a legit booster of the incoming sound is necessary, and unfortunately Red has left us to figure out appropriate solutions on our own while not making the camera too unwieldy.

The Beachtek looks slimmer and has some mounting options. From what I can see it doesn’t provide an XLR out, which should happen in an ideal world, especially since we purchased the 5-pin cable with XLR pigtails on it.

I have tried a couple of different things [a Comica AD3 was one]…I have a Zoom F6 that is bigger. Need to find how I will mount it but the beauty is it can be used as a 32-bit external recorder while passing through sound to the camera [but not via XLR]. Still requires a mini to XLR which adds to the spaghetti…again, Jarred, I realize the design is quite eloquent on the Raptor and the XL is coming [I cannot afford to keep buying and selling every new iteration, or dedicate time to selling an existing unit at some undetermined ‘used’ price] but I did see that pesky knockoff the Mavo have dual XLR’s in atop their latest design. Not ideal but saving us a bit of space.

All of this is to say a dedicated sound person is always preferable. Sometimes/most times the run-and-gun situation arises and said sound person is not always avaiable…so helping out here is a very real necessity.

You didn’t try the FetHead Phantom, I’d guess, if you still think this isn’t a ridiculously easy fix.

 

[Jeremy Torrie]

No I haven’t…although this is for one line only. Two doubles up obviously but what I have since found and have ordered is the Zoom F3:

https://zoomcorp.com/en/ca/handheld-video-recorders/field-recorders/f3/

Is extremely small and is a 32 bit recorder. Only issue is the mini out. If it had a screw down mini out this would be very, very good, but I’ll investigate soon enough.

There’s also an isolator mount for the F1N which is interesting. Trying to see If I can get it too in order to mount onto the camera.

 

[Ryan Chernin]

No I haven’t…although this is for one line only. Two doubles up obviously but what I have since found and have ordered is the Zoom F3:

https://zoomcorp.com/en/ca/handheld-...-recorders/f3/

Is extremely small and is a 32 bit recorder. Only issue is the mini out. If it had a screw down mini out this would be very, very good, but I’ll investigate soon enough.

There’s also an isolator mount for the F1N which is interesting. Trying to see If I can get it too in order to mount onto the camera.

The original issue was unacceptable gain levels and noise floor when going straight from a mic into the camera. Of course adding an external recorder will "fix" this

For anybody looking to simply get a clean gain boost for run and gun, something like a FetHead is tiny. It essentially just makes your mic a little longer. Four of them are the size of an F3 or any external recorder.



edit: to clarify tone of voice, since I kinda sound like im being a jerk

 

[Russ Fill]

I just got one of these and put it through the field test for a week or so... Seems pretty good solution if you don't want to 48v Phantom from the camera or need an alternative..
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08H24SBMS?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
Nice thing about this is that is relative small compared to other 48v units I have used and the fact that once charged its pretty solid for about 10 hours of use... I know not changeable batt but thats all good for me...

 

[Bryan Smith]

Just to let everyone know I went with a Fethead for simple run and gun set-up. Works super well with both Sanken and DPA. Had a custom 5pin lemo to XLR made so that it sends audio to both channels from a single mic. This allows you to take advantage of the gain from the Fethead and set one track a bit louder and then a safe track. Of course if you want to also feed a lav or hop then you need cable or Red XLR to split the channels. We have both configurations.

Thanks everyone for the advice.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

I use the M2D2, wich is more expensive but has a compressor limiter wich is great when not always looking at the levels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rrm8koDIPvk


https://sonosax.ch/product/sx-m2d2/

See you
Patrick

 

[Ryan Sims]

Thanks everyone for the input. Just to be clear the audio is working, just have to effectively max out gain in the camera to get decent levels and then of course it's picking up fan, ect... Looks like one of these inline preamps may be an interesting solution.

If you are truly picking up fan noise, the best pre-amps in the world will not solve this problem. You have to move the mic away from the camera and closer to the talent.