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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Possible Stolen Red Camera. Help Needed.

So why hasn't IndieRentals put up what serial number it is by now? Also, why not this individual's name and photo? He has it.
 
Blue said:
Indierentals, are you kidding us or what?? The lack of basic information on this matter has WELL past the point of reason. This is a bullshit thread with zero substance (apart from the good people offering to help) and it should be terminated immediately. Moderator, where are you?
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Give them another few days. They might be on vacation for the holidays. While there's definitely oddities and omitted information, I'd be surprised if IndieRentals made this whole thing up. Hate to have the thread closed before they have a chance to respond.
 
You guys are really being cold about this. It's one of those situations where you are saying things because you are hiding in the "comfort" of your little worlds on the internet.

If you were in a room with Eric right now, you would not be saying this stuff for fear of looking like a bunch of heartless jerks.

No one has anything to gain be calling or insinuating that Indirentals is throwing a scam. Even if you believe they are, you will find the "true" pros would keep it to themselvs since there is nothing to gain from questioning them, and risks hurting a potential business relationship for the future.

I for one don't know what's going on. And I don't need to, it's not my business. I do hope that whatever Eric and Indie is going through, gets resolved and every gets back whatever it is they lost.

Sometimes, voiceing an opinion just to voice it is NOT a good idea.. Advice I wish I would follow more often.

Jay
 
Given that this Wahid guy doesn't actually have any filmmaker credentials (as far as I can tell from my queries) and a name that is the equivalent of John Smith, I don't think they have much information that could be released about him that hasn't already been shown to be invalid or worthless. As for the serial numbers, I'd imagine they'd have them written down somewhere so they could keep track of who has what but if they don't, that's their mistake and not something we should waste energy on at this point since it isn't under our control. If the camera is still intact and functional it will surface when someone who isn't on the owner's list starts to buy accessories or something goes wrong with the innards and whomever has it will throw it away, try to send it to RED, or put it on the market for some gullible wannabe Spielberg in the NY area to buy. Hell for all we know, the guy could have been in debt to someone and the collectors decided to take the RED when they came knocking on his door. Whatever the case is here, this should be a big wakeup call to those of you who rent out your gear for extra cheese or are considering it.
 
I'm surprised so many people posted thinking this was a scam or publicity stunt. I can assure you this thread is not BS. I was on vacation and dealing with everyone from this board that I had been in contact with, as well as official agencies such as the FBI and my insurance, via phone.

A long while ago I had updated the serial numbers to 90, 91 or 93. The reason I didn't initially have the serial number is because these three cameras are on loan to us from a customer of ours. Upon their request for privacy, we had not written down actual serial numbers, but rather our internal numbers for them, which were RP1, RP2 and RP3. I can tell you that we shipped RP2. However, once the camera was stolen, privacy was out the window.

The customer that had loaned the cameras to us had picked up two of them for some quick tests, but had not told us what serial numbers they had in their possession. Since then they have dropped 93 off at our office again, but have yet to answer my repeated requests as to if they still have 90 or 91 in their possession. (They were busy shooting a feature but have since answered - it's camera 91 we're missing).

Yes, we have learned our lesson on that - they were the only items we have ever sent out without actual serial numbers being noted, and that won't happen again. That being said, the missing camera is 90 or 91. As soon as they get back to me on which they still have I'll post the specific number.

If this was a publicity stunt, why would I risk three different cameras being "found" that weren't stolen when I could just post one number and not risk it? If this were a lie, I could have easily posted a specific serial number at any time and quieted you down, but I don't want to post anything that's not a fact.

We have three full page ads in LA411 about our Red cameras. We pay for the advertising we need. I just want to find this missing one so that we can get it back where it belongs.

On that note, I need to send a special thank you to Anthony (airsealand) who was kind enough to help with the investigation.

If anyone doubts the legitimacy of this request, I invite you to come down to our facilities to speak with me. I think a handshake and tour of our operations will put your concerns to rest. I for one, will be ready to help anyone else who finds themselves in this situation in the future.
 
I will Keep an eye out and help however I can. Did you find the correct serial number.

Dave
 
Indie Rentals said:
I'm surprised so many people posted thinking this was a scam or publicity stunt. I can assure you this thread is not BS. I was on vacation and dealing with everyone from this board that I had been in contact with, as well as official agencies such as the FBI and my insurance, via phone.

A long while ago I had updated the serial numbers to 90, 91 or 93. The reason I didn't initially have the serial number is because these three cameras are on loan to us from a customer of ours. Upon their request for privacy, we had not written down actual serial numbers, but rather our internal numbers for them, which were RP1, RP2 and RP3. I can tell you that we shipped RP2. However, once the camera was stolen, privacy was out the window.

The customer that had loaned the cameras to us had picked up two of them for some quick tests, but had not told us what serial numbers they had in their possession. Since then they have dropped 93 off at our office again, but have yet to answer my repeated requests as to if they still have 90 or 91 in their possession. (They are busy shooting a feature and I can't say why they won't answer quickly).

Yes, we have learned our lesson on that - they were the only items we have ever sent out without actual serial numbers being noted, and that won't happen again. That being said, the missing camera is 90 or 91. As soon as they get back to me on which they still have I'll post the specific number.

If this was a publicity stunt, why would I risk three different cameras being "found" that weren't stolen when I could just post one number and not risk it? If this were a lie, I could have easily posted a specific serial number at any time and quieted you down, but I don't want to post anything that's not a fact.

We have three full page ads in LA411 about our Red cameras. We pay for the advertising we need. I just want to find this missing one so that we can get it back where it belongs.

On that note, I need to send a special thank you to Anthony (airsealand) who was kind enough to help with the investigation.

If anyone doubts the legitimacy of this request, I invite you to come down to our facilities to speak with me. I think a handshake and tour of our operations will put your concerns to rest. I for one, will be ready to help anyone else who finds themselves in this situation in the future.
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In a single post I have warmed to you Indie. Good luck...
 
facetmedia said:
stuff deleted...

it could all be some paperwork screwup. Seems they don't track serial numbers for any of their cameras... considering that they don't have the paperwork for the other 2 red cameras being rented out. It's been eleven days now... how long does it take to confirm the serial numbers of the other 2 cameras? Sloppy operation guys.
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From my own personal experience dealings with this company, this to me sums up their operation.
 
Well... I've rented from Indie Rentals and I'd rent from them again.

I'm a little surprised at how judgmental the response has been to this. Indie Rentals prices competitively to serve the Indie market - the rebels of the film world. Red users are mostly rebels - aren't they? Perhaps not. Perhaps now that it is a proven technology it's no longer a crowd of rebels who bend the rules a bit to try to make things happen and not get overly tied up in all the forces which try to stop filmmaking from happening.

Now, I don't think it's the worst idea to be semi-suspicious of entities in Hollywood - but I think attacking them is a lot different.
 
At first I thought Indie was pricing their equipment too aggressively for the market. But then I noticed they break it down by part and when you put a full package together, it's actually on the slightly higher end of competitive. We only rent our stuff as a complete package at a somewhat lower final rate (after all, what good are any of the red parts to us without the camera).

I have to say, that reading this horror story while our camera was in Mexico for 6 weeks, made me a bit nervous. But it came back with only a couple of minor new scratches.
 
Thanks Blue.

I don't want to derail this thread, so if anyone has any issues whatsoever with our operation, prices or anything related to Indie Rentals, feel free to PM me, call me or email me personally. I am the owner and I take every such concern very seriously. I got into this business because no one was out there taking serious care of indie shooters like myself; and, starting from one person growing to 12 full-time, we've had to learn a lot of lessons about how to do that the best.

This is another lesson, and I've explained the uniqueness of our serial number situation. We do use rental software that tracks serials of everything going out, but in this one instance we entered RP1, RP2 and RP3 as serials rather than 90, 91 and 93.

jeremyn: we have a low price guarantee and I'll make sure to update our prices accordingly as soon as I free up some time to find out where the market is at, or when am shown better prices.
 
taylor said:
Am I the only one who thinks that the camera might be in China on a bench being reversed engineered? A RED knockoff in the works....
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Good luck, I'm sure that there are some exclusive items in the Red one that would make it really hard. Also, it's not like there is loads of profit, Jim has been great to price things reasonably, so, why not reverse engineer a P2 card or an HVX200 and make some money off coming up with a cheaper way to get the same quality.
 
Actually Crewpix is right I guess. $17500 is like a 5 year old car or something, it's probably not the most valuable thing on set... Maybe a watermark in the metadata with the camera serial number is the best solution in the end. Yeah the mentioning of Avid dongle keys make me shiver :)
 
Dongles, S/N, phone home, etc are all virtually useless.

In a nutshell there is no realistic and commercially affordable solution to be honest. There isn't a dongle made by anyone that hasn't been and can't be hacked. There is not an 'Activation' process that can't be beaten. You need to the understand the economics and ego of why, not just the result.

There are a few solutions that would make it 'unappealing' to pilfer the unit, i.e., the man hours of hacking and/or ego payoff is not justifyable. Ok but you're going to added much more weight, power, complexity, and annoyances that only organizations like the government are willing to tolerate.

Navstar/GPS active tracking unit, unless you know with an hour or so it is stolen, the smart criminal type will have this disabled in about 15minutes. Now say you are shooting in a location, cave, underwater, metal shack where reception is weak or not at all possible or your filming involves driving around, there is no way for the Navstar to know if it has been stolen or you're shooting guerilla style. Do you want it to shut the machine off in the middle of your shoot? You would need to link with a credit card type tracking database(expert system) that is fairly smart and adept at figuring out what's going on.

A biometric interface, smart card, fingerprint, retinal scan with voice activation is probably the toughest. The data is always encrypted so even you managed to get to the hard drive, you would need a supercomputer to crack the encryption. The military use this style on their hardened laptops but the data they are protecting means lives could be lost. But now say Joe DoP can't make it on the set, sick, quits over 'creative' differences, now you have a system which may be completely inoperable. So you are paying the crew to wait around, have a donut, smoke, check emails, read Variety, SMS their agent, while you find out where the 2nd unit crew is.... :)

I think the simplest solution is to use a different color for the base unit instead of black, not just painted on but anodized or aloydined. Use that Red Logo along with the S/N. To me this is really bad marketing to have it look like every other film camera available. They, Red, should have the balls to stand up and say, (best Samuel L. Jackson voice) "Here's the future mother f_ck_r!" :) IMHO (and why where there so many snakes on that plane ha ha ha)

Maybe anyone who buys it sign an agreement, like ones you have to sign with Dolby, that at the end of the film you have to include a Red logo with the S/N. These seem like easy, economic and viable solutions IMHO.

Maybe red will put up a separate web page of owners and S/N along with a history of ownership, firmware, upgrades, like the DMV. So if one is pilfered and chopped up it will be obvious to many people, some one report it.

Just my .02.
 
CrewPix.com said:
Cameras are black so they don't reflect in what you are shooting.
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aloydining or anodizing, is not the same as paint. if you're a smart cookie, you'd probably knurl the surface so the light is fairly randomly scattered off of the surfaces, this is an easy and cheap mechanical process. the camera body is not that large so the scattering that would be directly in the FOV would be minimal even with big 4x8 reflectors or a 4kW of lighting.

i would think more that they are black because when you shoot film, you want to minimize any possibility of stray light getting onto the film. my .02.
 
I'm updating my prior posts, but officially.... Camera number 91 is the one that is missing. Insurance investigators are on it more than law enforcement is... Hope we find this guy. Thanks everyone.
 
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