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For $15,000 - Red 18:50 + 50:150 *OR* Ziess Standard Prime Set?

Thor Wixom

Thor Wixom

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The combined price of the Red 18:50 + 50:150 is $15,000.

A Ziess Standard Prime Set costs about the same.

It's an either or since I have $15,000 budgeted for glass.

I'd like to know what other red users would choose, and why... and if you can think of a better way to spend that budget, please mention that, too.

Thanks!

-Thor
 
For about 5k you should be able to buy a set of PL mount lomos, 18, 22, 28, 35, 50, 75, 100, and spend the other 10k on a good 25-250 zoom.

Or

Cooke Speed Pancro
Series II Lens Set

# PACKAGE INCLUDES: Rehoused Cooke Speed Pancro lenses with focus gears
# 18mm T2.2 Close Focus: 12"
# 25mm T2.2 Close Focus: 12"
# 32mm T2.3 Close Focus: 12"
# 40mm T2.3 Close Focus: 18"
# 50mm T2.3 Close Focus: 24"
# 75mm T2.3 Close Focus: 36"
# All lenses in BNC Mount
$9,500 from Visual products, probly a few hundred a lens for PL mounts.

and



Cooke Varotal 25-250mm MKII T4
# Close focus 5.6 feet
# PL mount
# Very Sharp COOKE OPTICS
# Lens Support Ring available (call for price)
# 15mm Bridgeplate Support & Rods available (call for price)

Item Number: 2
Price: $5,900.00

There a lot of options out there, it's not just Ziess and Red. It sounds like what people are saying about the red lenses is that ACs are going to hate pulling focus on them. I haven't yet seen them, so I am only going on what has been said in this forum.

Personally, I have a set of Lomo's, a Cannon 2.8 300mm, and am looking at my zoom options, waiting for the right one to come along.

cheers,

Nick
 
Thor Wixom said:
The combined price of the Red 18:50 + 50:150 is $15,000.

A Ziess Standard Prime Set costs about the same.

It's an either or since I have $15,000 budgeted for glass.

I'd like to know what other red users would choose, and why... and if you can think of a better way to spend that budget, please mention that, too.

Thanks!

-Thor
Click to expand...

hi from my sight i will advise you to go for Ultra primes if you can not for budget i think go for Red's...
 
Concrete,

You will find some sets here:

http://www.insyncpubs.com/classifieds/camerasLenses.asp

I have also found sets by searching on google.

A Ziess Standard Set is T2.1, and usually covers one of two sets of numbers:

16mm, 28mm, 40mm, 50mm,100mm
or,
16mm, 24mm, 32,mm, 50mm, 85mm

I haven't found any sets that include anything above 100mm.

-Thor
 
Thor,

You can't go wrong with Zeiss glass, and at some point if you plan on having people that have been in the industry using your camera, either working for you or as a rental, then Zeiss makes a lot of sense. Now, for the same money you'd have more coverage from the RED lenses, but my only concern with them is breathing, how much do they breathe? I was hoping that somebody would post a quick focus racking and zooming of the 18-50 but so far that footage is missing in action. You can deal with poor ergonomics (to an extent) since people seeing the final product won't be bothered by that, but if you have too much breathing, then that directly compromises the final product you put onscreen, be it a TV or a cinema screen. So, like you, I'm enticed by the value the RED zooms seem to be, but unless I see some tests with them, I'll go with something else when the time comes.
 
It really depends on your shooting style and needs. Personally I prefer primes, but if you are a one man band a zoom makes alot more sense, or if the type of footage requires constant reframing, then obviously a zoom is the way to go.

If your projects are scripted and each shot is planned, then get primes.

Eventually you will need both.
 
Hey Thor,

I could be mistaken, but that might be an old advertisement. I bought one of those sets 3 or 4 weeks ago, and was told the other had already been sold.

I'm happy with these lenses, and the Angenieux 17-102 zoom as well. :-)
 
arrinick said:
For about 5k you should be able to buy a set of PL mount lomos, 18, 22, 28, 35, 50, 75, 100, and spend the other 10k on a good 25-250 zoom.

Or

Cooke Speed Pancro
Series II Lens Set

# PACKAGE INCLUDES: Rehoused Cooke Speed Pancro lenses with focus gears
# 18mm T2.2 Close Focus: 12"
# 25mm T2.2 Close Focus: 12"
# 32mm T2.3 Close Focus: 12"
# 40mm T2.3 Close Focus: 18"
# 50mm T2.3 Close Focus: 24"
# 75mm T2.3 Close Focus: 36"
# All lenses in BNC Mount
$9,500 from Visual products, probly a few hundred a lens for PL mounts.

and



Cooke Varotal 25-250mm MKII T4
# Close focus 5.6 feet
# PL mount
# Very Sharp COOKE OPTICS
# Lens Support Ring available (call for price)
# 15mm Bridgeplate Support & Rods available (call for price)

Item Number: 2
Price: $5,900.00

There a lot of options out there, it's not just Ziess and Red. It sounds like what people are saying about the red lenses is that ACs are going to hate pulling focus on them. I haven't yet seen them, so I am only going on what has been said in this forum.

Personally, I have a set of Lomo's, a Cannon 2.8 300mm, and am looking at my zoom options, waiting for the right one to come along.

cheers,

Nick
Click to expand...


Really?

Where can you buy these?

Method
 
ZEISS Standards-- Gone Baby Gone

ZEISS Standards-- Gone Baby Gone

Good luck finding any sets of Zeiss Standard primes for less than 20K or so, if you can find them at all. Two months ago you could pick up a set for 15K or less, but now due to high demand they are no longer easily found and the sets I've seen in the last few weeks have been grossly overpriced ($23,000+).

All the ads you see in Google (in-sync, etc) are ancient. Those primes are history.

I've been building a set one lens at a time, but it's looking bleak. Cooke zooms (10 to 1s) are getting rare to.

To answer the original question, 2 months ago I would have said get a set of 2.1 primes. Now it's not an option for that budget unless you get really lucky.

I have a bastard kit of a few standard primes, a cooke 18-100 zoom, some decent Nikons and I'm considering the RED zoom. I'll probably play with all these for a month or two and then sell the ones I decide not to keep. 15K is pretty much my upper limit as well.
 
Hi Thor,

Short zooms come handy on any handheld/steadycam shoot where minor breathing does not matter that much. Also any focus puller would love you for shooting not wider than f2.8...

For anything that deserves accurat lenses that do not breath and show hardly any abberations primes are the way to go, eg. greenscreen, packshots etc...

If you need a every day zoom lens that does have a widely usable range I find 19-50 tp short. Additionally I find 150mm too short for a real long lens feeling. The RED 300 seems to be not bad, nor is a Canon 300.

I would go for the Zeiss primes and if you find another 4k get a Cooke 20-100. A very good Zoom on budget. I've used the Zeiss 2.1 a lot and found them very sharp - Zeiss-sharp.
Not everyones taste though, but making things soft is not a big challenge...

Hans
 
what about a nice Birger mount and a full set of Canon glass????
 
Hoffman said:
what about a nice Birger mount and a full set of Canon glass????
Click to expand...

First off, thank you everyone for the advice and info. I love the sense of community on this board!

Hoffman,

I'm considering Canon glass and a Birger mount, too. In fact, after speaking with Mike at Visual Products today, my only choice may be between Canon / Birger combo and Red lenses.

Zeiss may be out of the question at this point. Mike said there has been a global run on quality optics, specifically because of the Red camera.

As I see it, here are the pros to the Birger / Canon combo:

1. Relatively inexpensive - $15,000 will go a long way!
2. Autofocus (2nd Q 08) - it really is a necessity for many of my shoots
3. Remote follow focus - I'm planning to go with a remote FF anyway, why spend the extra $$$$?
4. Zoom, Iris, Focus Control from one remote - I can't even tell you how cool I think that is!
5. For an additional small investment in a Canon DSLR, I will have kick butt options for still photography!

And here are the cons as I see them:

1. Birger is an unproven system. While I am very optimistic about Erik and co., I can see a lot of potential for less than ideal performance. I have to keep in mind that still lenses were not designed for this, and a lot can go wrong.
2. There will be lens snobs that may not want to rent my system or hire me + camera + Canon lenses. I may literally lose work to other owners whose rig includes the "right" glass.
3. $15,000 is a lot to spend to end up with something that doesn't work the way I need it to.

With that being said, Birger / Canon is still a very compelling option, one that I'm currently exploring.

-Thor
 
Evin Grant said:
I think I purchased the last few T2.1s from VP. I managed to put together a bastard 6 lens set (16,24,32,50,85,100) for 20K.
Click to expand...

Nice. I had an opportunity to get a 5-lens set in October for 13K. Of course I am now kicking myself. I need an 85 and 24 and then I'll be good... fat chance of finding those outside a set.

I'm crossing my fingers that the Red Nikon mount + Nikon primes (plus 17-35 zoom) will prove a decent option. I like the idea of using faster primes for a fraction of their cine counterparts.
 
SIRAJ KUMKHE said:
hi from my sight i will advise you to go for Ultra primes if you can not for budget i think go for Red's...
Click to expand...

I don't think this is an either/or situation. There is ALOT of grey area here.
 
I hear you about the Birger scenario - I am excited to see the results of the tests. The renting idea does bring considerations not necessarily associated with your own private use. I wonder about this myself - Still for a relatively small investment one can explore the canon option - I guess we'll all see.

Good Luck -

Oh - and now with the RED matte box... who knows??? Maybe the full red package is the way to go.
 
Thor Wixom said:
2. There will be lens snobs that may not want to rent my system or hire me + camera + Canon lenses. I may literally lose work to other owners whose rig includes the "right" glass.

-Thor
Click to expand...

Why lose work? Tell those clients you can easily (I hope this is true) subrent the pricier lenses if desired.
 
It's getting harder and harder to decide what lenses to go with. Originally I was sure I would go with still Zeiss ZF solution with maybe a Nikon 17-35 and 28-70 zoom for tackling any situation. Now as my camera draws nearer and I see more tests being done with it using various different lenses (particularly that first big comparison test), I'm not so sure. If anybody knows where I can get a set of good LOMO lenses, I'd love to hear it. Also, I'm really starting to consider the RED prime lens set as more and more cinema lenses get harder to find.

What gets me is how the Nikon mount was delayed due to the PL mount upgrade. I was waiting to see tests before making a decision because my camera was due at the end of the month, now it's looking like the first couple of weeks of January depending on how far off the schedule is. Still, that may not be enough time for the first 100 to get theirs back along with the Nikon mount which is due around then so, in effect, I'm actually hoping for another delay on my camera!
 
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